Thick Weenies & Aerodynamics

Who are you (no off-topic talk please)

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robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

TBT wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:36 pm

I will be keeping my current bike for the time being and will look at picking up some new 50-60mm wheels in the next few months. Any recommendations ? Up to say £1k

Cheers,

L.
Luke, for that amount you can probably benefit the most by getting wheels from reputable Chinese brands (eg LightBicycle or Farsports), also cause you can build them as you want (and at your weight you may want to consider a few additional spokes, unless you're having no issues currently). A set of wheels could set you back some £600 to £900 depending on hub choice etc.
There's two threads in the "Wheels" section for you to learn more on these.

Other than that, in case you don't have top level tyres, please consider upgrading those. The difference between having basic stock tyres with butyl tubes and top range allround/race tyres with either latex tubes or tubeless is *huge* and you *will* notice it. Wheels and tyres, for a relatively small amount of £££, will make a difference that is far greater than what the frameset alone would do.

I haven't thoroughly read all answers, but another thing you may consider is optimising your position. Being in an aggressive position may be easier for you as you probably have plenty of core strength and flexibility, and especially on the flats it will help greatly. A set of slightly narrower aero handlebars will help greatly in both being more aero in itself, and also allowing you to get more aero, so this is also something to consider that would yield a great benefit for relatively little money.

You definitely have plenty of room for improving your FTP, and probably positioning can also yield great gains, but you can nonetheless treat yourself to some bling, especially if it helps you liking your bike more and wanting to ride it more - just leave the frameset for a while and focus on bits that are more important (IMO, tyres, handlebars, wheels, in this order)

Pierre86
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 3:53 pm

by Pierre86

Trainerroad is pretty dull but works really well if you follow a plan, even the low volume options will give you gains. The sweetspot plans are good if you're limited on time and you should see a reasonably rapid rise in numbers if you follow the workouts with any kind of regularity., more so again if you're new to structured training. It won't be as fun as zwift but the training quality/stimulus is much higher being properly structured.

Don't even worry about your sprint when training, 1100w for 10 sec will win a lot of races if you go down that path but a fresh ten second squirt isn't the same as at the end of any raceand that's before any kind of positioning. I'd likely be a similar size to you, bit heavier tbh, and have won sprints with peaks as low as 900w as I'd be completely spent after the wind up to the finish. Adding ~50w to my threshold over a year or so (still low per/kg) meant I'd get to line that much fresher and added ~300w to my end of race sprint, still miles off fresh numbers but much better than the stone legged wobbles I could do previously.

Edit: Also for aero, the biggest gains you'll see are positional. As bigger guys we punch a massive hole in the wind, little positional changes can see big increases in speed, far beyond anything that you can buy in equipment, beyond a TT bike that is.
S6 Evo
S5 Aero

by Weenie


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TBT
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:12 pm

by TBT

Pierre86 wrote:Trainerroad is pretty dull but works really well if you follow a plan, even the low volume options will give you gains. The sweetspot plans are good if you're limited on time and you should see a reasonably rapid rise in numbers if you follow the workouts with any kind of regularity., more so again if you're new to structured training. It won't be as fun as zwift but the training quality/stimulus is much higher being properly structured.

Don't even worry about your sprint when training, 1100w for 10 sec will win a lot of races if you go down that path but a fresh ten second squirt isn't the same as at the end of any raceand that's before any kind of positioning. I'd likely be a similar size to you, bit heavier tbh, and have won sprints with peaks as low as 900w as I'd be completely spent after the wind up to the finish. Adding ~50w to my threshold over a year or so (still low per/kg) meant I'd get to line that much fresher and added ~300w to my end of race sprint, still miles off fresh numbers but much better than the stone legged wobbles I could do previously.

Edit: Also for aero, the biggest gains you'll see are positional. As bigger guys we punch a massive hole in the wind, little positional changes can see big increases in speed, far beyond anything that you can buy in equipment, beyond a TT bike that is.

Yeah I had a look at trainer road and if I’m being honest with myself I think I might struggle to keep much motivation with it as my only training tool. At this moment in time I’m sort of leaning towards Zwift and utilising some of the training plans on there as it also offers the racing / social aspect.

With regard to the sprint, it was in the last 1500m of a 33km “2 W/kg” social ride. I had a normalised power of 192w with a peak of 1102w for 11 seconds sprinting.

I’ve not yet taken part in a single race, although in all honesty I tried one on a friends set up at the beginning of this year and got absolutely decimated by other riders putting out 3+ W/kg in a Cat D race which left a bit of a rubbish impression, which is probably why.

Hopefully I can build a bit of a better engine over the coming months / year and get involved in a few more races etc.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Pierre86
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 3:53 pm

by Pierre86

TBT wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:38 pm

Yeah I had a look at trainer road and if I’m being honest with myself I think I might struggle to keep much motivation with it as my only training tool. At this moment in time I’m sort of leaning towards Zwift and utilising some of the training plans on there as it also offers the racing / social aspect.

With regard to the sprint, it was in the last 1500m of a 33km “2 W/kg” social ride. I had a normalised power of 192w with a peak of 1102w for 11 seconds sprinting.

I’ve not yet taken part in a single race, although in all honesty I tried one on a friends set up at the beginning of this year and got absolutely decimated by other riders putting out 3+ W/kg in a Cat D race which left a bit of a rubbish impression, which is probably why.

Hopefully I can build a bit of a better engine over the coming months / year and get involved in a few more races etc.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
You can run the trainerroad plans concurrently with zwift, let the program set the resistance while riding around or just ride to the 'outdoor' workouts in game. Without getting evangelical the plans just work.

I've got some free one month referrals if you're interested enough, you'll absolutely see improvements over the month if you stick at it
S6 Evo
S5 Aero

mike
Resident Pro
Posts: 2994
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:42 pm

by mike

You probably need to rest more in order to be able to ride longer and more power

mrfish
Posts: 1749
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland

by mrfish

Good topic. As someone who has a shed full of bikes, I can state from experience that the posters above are correct.

That said, there is nothing wrong with making the most of what you have, and riding smart and choosing rides which play to your strengths. This is the route to having more fun. If you work on bunch positioning and equip yourself with full aero and correct gearing you will be competitive more quickly. In a 1 lap track league event you would probably kick arse already, even if you would only last a few laps in something like a points race. Also downhill strava KOM hunting is fun if you weigh 90kg and have aero. Just don't take risks.

Regarding training, be careful. Yes you can get fast gains from ambitious programs like Trainerroad, but equally you can burn out and want to take up windsurfing and yoga as the cycling program can be too intensive alongside work, family and life stuff that inevitably clashes with your key training session.

Successful riders keep things in balance over years. I would recommend keeping things very simple and looking to build TSS or riding frequency and total km over 2-3 years. The details of what intervals you do or how far you ride are not hugely important as any stimulus will make your body adapt over the first few years. If you aim to not get dropped/complete comfortably/lead/win your group rides, these normally have intervals built in, and your training will be completely specific! As your FTP increases, you will naturally need to do more to build TSS.

I work with a coach, mainly because it forces me to get off my arse and exercise when I don't feel like it. Cost is 1 pair of mid range carbon wheels per year. Surprisingly, I do a lot less intensity than I would have done on my own during bouts of enthusiasm, but also a lot more in the other times and more consistently. Over the course of a season, there are clear gains and I'm now doing things which is never have considered possible.

Good luck!

Marin
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

The thing that will make you ride faster is a bike that you *like to ride* a lot. Aero or light doesn't really matter that much.

TBT
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:12 pm

by TBT

Holy Resurrection Batman !!

Apologies if this is not the correct way to go about updating this post but I went away after reading everyones posts (and now seeing I didn't respond to some generous offers ... sorry Pierre :( ) and worked heavily on my fitness and general riding ability.

I'd like to say thanks again to everyone who chimed in, over winter I managed to get in to a few different training plans as well as head out on a few group rides with a local club and started commuting to a new job almost daily.

I retested my FTP, which I can now 6 times confirm I absolute detest, at around the end of May and am now comfortably sitting at just over 3w/kg and have managed to drop another 9kg to a very 'slender' 81kg (ish) and at no detriment to my power output .... infact it has increased quite substantially !!

The emonda is still here (although I did end up buying another bike and have another on order) and living through daily use without being a hinderance.

So all in all I just wanted to say cheers to all, your words definitley helped !

PeytonM
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:59 am

by PeytonM

Way to go that's a great improvement. Kudos and keep at it.

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