2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.05kg w/ custom wheelset

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justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

With my custom-built, 1.145g climbing wheelset I ran into the opposite side of the weightweenie coin: got problems with reliability & durability.

After 300km of riding, I noticed that something didn't feel right under my ass, it felt wobbly, like a loose quick release axle.
But it actually was three spokes becoming really loose (think spaghetti loose) and the wheel went untrue.
Same was happening on the front wheel, but not as quickly as in the rear.

So I returned the wheelset to my wheel builder.
Acc. to the wheelbuilder, the manufacturer specced torque for the Stans Grail CB7 carbon rim is rather on the lower end.

What he did to increase the durability was to change the Sapim spoke nipples to the Sapim Secure Locks ( https://www.sapim.be/nipples/design/secure-lock ) and to use some additional washers. This enabled him to increase the spoke tension. Weightwise there is no noticable difference.

Additionally, in the front hub (Tune Princess) the ceramic bearings ran rough... so I had to send the front wheel to Tune in the Black Forest.
Bearings were replaced, free of charge.

Finally, this week I could ride the overhauled wheelset for 200km in unusually warm winter weather (felt like spring this week in Germany).
Until now, everything's great.

They ride very nicely, very comfortable. I cannot state that I feel any aero difference, esp. at speeds around 30km/h (19mph) when training solo or lower speeds when going up hills.
The complete, ridable wheelset incl. brake discs, tires, sealant, cassette etc. are around 290g lighter than the Roval CLX 50.
The lesser weight is noticable when accelerating or on steep gradients.

However, I do have to say I prefer the look of the deeper Roval CLX 50, but I'm growing to the look of the shallow wheels.

In the days of burly e-bikes and "chubby" aero bikes -> clean, elegant and sleek lines grow on me again.

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Last edited by justRideIt on Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

by Weenie


justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Here the Roval CLX 50 wheelset as comparison.

Thanks to the tips from fellow weightweenies in this thread, I have shimmed the 6-hole brake discs
( https://r2-bike.com/SYNTACE-Unterlegsch ... eibe-8-Stk )
so that I can switch between the wheelsets without adjusting the calipers, and without rubbing brake pads :beerchug:

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2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

jeanjacques
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:01 am
Location: France

by jeanjacques

justRideIt wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:25 am
In the days of burly e-bikes, "chubby" aero bikes, clean, elegant and sleek lines grow on me again.
Good, you are on the right way to go back to rim brake :)

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

jeanjacques wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:39 am
justRideIt wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:25 am
In the days of burly e-bikes, "chubby" aero bikes, clean, elegant and sleek lines grow on me again.
Good, you are on the right way to go back to rim brake :)
:beerchug:

I will still ride the heck out of my rim brake Canyon Aeroad... and then maybe for next project go for historic bike with rim brakes, downtube shifters etc ;)
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

hannawald
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Your all black looks great, not many places for weight savings.
How are Corsa Speed? Aren't they too fragile? If so, Hutchinson Fusion 5 11Storm Galactiks should be similar weight and more punctureproof..
You should try Berk saddle, looking at profile of your saddle it may work for you. If ok, than step two is to have your saddle and seatpost glued to one piece combo:)
Maybe try to find stem spacers in your seatpost 3k matt shadow..maybe only Darimo can source some because their colour is more grey than black..
Why did you went custom wheelset way? Did you consider Extralite wheelset?

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

hannawald wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:04 am
Your all black looks great, not many places for weight savings.
How are Corsa Speed? Aren't they too fragile? If so, Hutchinson Fusion 5 11Storm Galactiks should be similar weight and more punctureproof..
You should try Berk saddle, looking at profile of your saddle it may work for you. If ok, than step two is to have your saddle and seatpost glued to one piece combo:)
Maybe try to find stem spacers in your seatpost 3k matt shadow..maybe only Darimo can source some because their colour is more grey than black..
Why did you went custom wheelset way? Did you consider Extralite wheelset?
Thanks :)

My bike shop had good feedback from customers for the Corsa Speeds and asked me whether I want to try them. They set them up tubeless instead of the stock S-Works Turbo Cotton (which I am currently riding on the Aeroad). So I was curious what the number one on bicyclerollingresistance.com felt like to ride ;)
I really like the way they roll, the test at bicyclerollingresistance does not lie... they roll very smoothly and they got a nice sound to them.

I was also worried about fragility, but in the 1.500km I've ridden them so far, they've been reliable.
No punctures, no cuts, no spilled milk.
And I did put them through tough stuff during last fall to really test them out, and even ran them through one or the other gravel section.
I wanted to know whether I should throw them out the window right away ;)

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What my bike shop warned me about is to not lock up the rear tire over longer distances, e.g. braking too hard on a descent and sliding on the locked rear wheel for say 10m. This will eat through the thin Graphene-rubber-compound quite fast and you're on the carcass.
Also the tire with its cotton casing leaks A LOT of air until it is sealed. During the sealing process, this throws bubbles along the sidewalls, and even tears the black coating up at places, revealing the white carcass. This looks rubbish. Also the sidewalls look dusty and dirty except for right after a bike wash, i.e. all the time.

Would I recommend them as an everyday tire?
All things considered (durability, cost, fragility, looks ...), I would not.
But my Tarmac is also not my everyday bike, but the one I want to ride the nicest and fastest stuff on, so some compromise in other areas like durability comes with it ;)

Maybe I've just been lucky so far with the Corsa Speeds, and once the tire tread gets even thinner, I might run out of luck and I'll have three punctures within a week??
I'll keep a close eye on them, would be happy to get another 1.000km out... thanks for the tip with the Hutchinson's, might try them next.

I've had a look at Berk, the stuff they've been putting out lately is incredible.

Yes, I did consider the Extralite wheelset. YouTuber Rides of Japan has one or two good videos about the wheelset.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDQKCevHF_E

In the end, I did not want to deal with the Extralite hubs... whether the Prince & Princess hubs from Tune are any more reliable, I have to find out myself ;)
So far, the support from Tune was excellent.

Also, I wanted to input my parameters (rider weight, riding profile etc.) to build a completely bespoke wheelset instead of the usual one-size-fits-the-average rider.
It was great fun to go through everything with an experienced wheelbuilder from hubs, centerlock vs 6-hole disc mount, to colors to spoke count over nipples to rim options with different inner widths, listing weights out in spreadsheets etc.

So far, very happy with the results :)
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

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corky
Posts: 1573
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: The Surrey Hills

by corky

Really nice to see a picture of someone's pride and joy in a used state. 👍

Besenwagen
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:21 am

by Besenwagen

What's the weight with your climbing wheels and more importantly - where did you get that wheelset from?

spdntrxi
Posts: 3985
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

Most definately like the look of CLX50 on that tarmac..

in fairness to extralite ..I've owned their hubs for many 5+ years and ridden them in rain and muck and never had an issue with them. Kinda sad since going to disc brake bikes, I dont have any wheelsets with extralite hubs any more.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

Besenwagen wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:16 pm
What's the weight with your climbing wheels and more importantly - where did you get that wheelset from?
sitting at 6.20 kg with the climbing wheelset and Shimano XTR MTB pedals (for winter shoes).
70g less with Shimano Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals (cannot wait to put these back on ;) )

Further reductions to sub-6.0kg would be possible, but come with compromises, e.g.
- cranks: THM Clavicula could save 140g, but sacrificing the neatly integrated S-Works power meter. And pedal based power meters are often rather heavy, esp. as rotating mass right under the foot (I ride heavy-ass 437g Powertap P1 pedals on another bike and do not want to put something like that on the Tarmac ;) ).
- chainrings: Extralite Octaramp 50/34 would save 35g comp. to PraxisWorks
- handlebars: my current 3T Superergo are 165g, could save 35g with Darimo, Schmolke, Mcfk... but I do like the shape, Di2 cable-routing and comfort of the Superergo
- pedals: Look Keo Blade Ti would save 50g comp. to Dura Ace... I've had two pairs of these on at the bike shop and both had play in the axle (noticably clicking when putting load on them). The Dura Ace SPD-SL just work so well and reliably, I put them on and forget about them. Don't want to deal with finicky pedals.
- saddle: Berk Lupina at 66g would save 70g compared to S-Works Romin EVO... but my a$$ feels so comfy on the Romin and if my butt hurts on a lightweight carbon saddle after 4 hours, I happily sacrifice 70g to have a comfy butt and ride 2 hours more :D

So overall I'm satisfied with how it turned out, change some minor things (Titanium screws for mounting the brake disc etc.) but overall I'm done... I have 4.000 grams to save on my body this winter and spring :noidea: :thumbup:

Wheelset built by https://radsporttechnik-mueller.de/ .

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2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

Besenwagen
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:21 am

by Besenwagen

Should you consider to swap the crankset, look at Favero Assioma Duos, the lightest Powermeter these days (300g), proven and reliable!
Congratulations to your bike

Prawn
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:44 am

by Prawn

If you want to use THM cranks, but I don't like pedal-based power meters, then you might consider the aeropod power meter. I've been happy with this setup (THM Cranks with Aeropod power meter) for 12 months and found it to be reliable and (importantly) very light weight

reedplayer
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

justRideIt wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:25 am
.....
With my custom-built, 1.145g climbing wheelset I ran into the opposite side of the weightweenie coin: got problems with reliability & durability.

After 300km of riding, I noticed that something didn't feel right under my ass, it felt wobbly, like a loose quick release axle.
But it actually was three spokes becoming really loose (think spaghetti loose) and the wheel went untrue.
Same was happening on the front wheel, but not as quickly as in the rear......
justRideIt wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:12 am

Wheelset built by https://radsporttechnik-mueller.de/ .
Hello,
if i understand this correctly, the problems, you described above, occured with the wheelset you purchased from "Radsporttechnik Müller" ?
Regards,

justRideIt
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:10 am
Location: Germany

by justRideIt

reedplayer wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 pm
Hello,
if i understand this correctly, the problems, you described above, occured with the wheelset you purchased from "Radsporttechnik Müller" ?
Regards,
Correct... but the owner Andreas has been very helpful and supportive in getting everything resolved quickly.
2020 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc @ 6.35-ish kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=159454

by Weenie


dudemanppl
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

by dudemanppl

One more small detail you can do is swap the RD hanger for the DM version and then you can take off the stock link. Should be about 8-10g saved. Maybe upgrade the hanger bolt to Ti too.

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