Pinarello F12 Rim brake build

Who are you (no off-topic talk please)

Moderators: MrCurrieinahurry, maxim809, Moderator Team

MortenJ
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:38 pm

by MortenJ

Looks nice. I've got the sideral grey yesterday.

But the internal routing through the Talon Ultra to the rear brake (rim) is driving me nuts - it's very sloppy and spongy. Do you have any advice to do that properly?

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

Boshk wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:01 am
Still waiting on parts but its finally built.
Isn't as light as I thought but then again I knew that.

Mechanical did NOT work, at least I couldn't get it to work. Hope this helps whoever is thinking about it.

Installed a Campagnolo Chorus groupset on it using Most stem and a standard handlebar.

2 main issues came out:
1st was the spacer adapter for the cables to run internally.....its hard and sharp which basically started to strip the brake housing cover....I tested it a few times turning my handlebar and I could see it eating all the way to the cable itself
IMG_20191012_124322.jpg
IMG_20191013_151816.jpg

2nd issue: On my workstand, shifting was good but once on the ground while turning the handlebar, the FD would self shift....yes....self shift each time I turned the bar. There is actually no extra cabling room like a 'standard' bike

So I threw that out and went di2.
Campy 12 spd EPS would have been ideal but for that price, I could equipped both my C60 and F12 with DA R9150 di2 AND Favero Assioma duo......(prices based on the Black Friday stuff....tomorrow!)
A bit late to this, but if it were me building it, I'd just get a file to smooth off the edges to reduce cable friction through the headset cable guide. The reason you were getting shifting when turning the bars is that you must have cut the housing too short. If you watch Pinarello's video, they are cutting the housing at least 5 cm longer than where the ferrules slot into the cable guide insert. That extra slack will let you turn the bars without affecting cable tension. I imagine when you built it, turning the bars was pretty stiff?
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Boshk
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

MortenJ wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:31 am
Looks nice. I've got the sideral grey yesterday.

But the internal routing through the Talon Ultra to the rear brake (rim) is driving me nuts - it's very sloppy and spongy. Do you have any advice to do that properly?
Sorry MortenJ, haven't checked my forum in ages, hope you got it fixed.
I had to play around with it, ended up pushing a little more cable into toptube, seem to work and not spongy.

Boshk
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

zappafile123 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:55 am

A bit late to this, but if it were me building it, I'd just get a file to smooth off the edges to reduce cable friction through the headset cable guide. The reason you were getting shifting when turning the bars is that you must have cut the housing too short. If you watch Pinarello's video, they are cutting the housing at least 5 cm longer than where the ferrules slot into the cable guide insert. That extra slack will let you turn the bars without affecting cable tension. I imagine when you built it, turning the bars was pretty stiff?
Thanks for the reply. I gave up after it was doing that, spent I think a good few hours trying to route it properly, like you said, I probably cut it too short. In the end I just went di2, no regrets, works, reliable (so far), shifts everytime.

User avatar
TriVuk
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:04 pm

by TriVuk

Great build and beautiful bike... You get stiff and aero and light and rim brake and threaded BB in one package. :)

I don't know any other bike with similar features...Maybe old Aeroad...

bruno2000
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

I"m building a Pinarello F12 frame with Talon handlebar and a mechanical Super Record 12v.
Any tips and trics? What I have understand from reading is vital to keep the outer casings long enough.

User avatar
engsohere
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:19 pm

by engsohere

bruno2000 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:40 am
I"m building a Pinarello F12 frame with Talon handlebar and a mechanical Super Record 12v.
Any tips and trics? What I have understand from reading is vital to keep the outer casings long enough.
Where are you on this project? I'm looking to build mine with the same specs and Bora WTO 60 wheelset. I could pre-order the new R9200 groupset but the Bora WTO wheelset would be a mismatch. Plus, the R9200 wheelset looks cheap with that matte finish and it's tubeless only. I've seen a few builds on utube with SR 12 mechanical but no follow-up reviews. The cable routing design looks relaxed when you compare it to something like Deda DCR where the cables go in the front, rubbing directly on the headset.

When you factor in the cost it's a no-brainer.

Cost of build R9200 $4200 groupset R9200 60 wheelset $2200
Cost of build SR 12 Mech $2600 groupset Bora WTO wheelset $1800

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I'm amazed the fork is so heavy....
I wonder about the brake cable adapter under stem, that add how much to the frame spec stack?
Let's say a frame is speced at 560mm stack, how much would that part increase stack height?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

User avatar
engsohere
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:19 pm

by engsohere

Hi all, I reached out to a current F12 owner running SR mechanical disc groupset. He has had the bike for over a year and was nice enough to send me a detailed reply:

"The current/newest version of Campagnolo Super Record 12 Speed Groupset's (Campy SR 12SP) Front Derailleur (FD) has a failure mode that needs design change/material change, at least in my opinion. This failure mode could be either caused by an engineering problem (using weaker Young's modulus materials) or production process problem (manufacturing process that weakens material properties); or both. In layman's terms, the lever arm that holds the FD spring in place over time ruptures itself. The lever arm that holds the FD spring in itself is not strong enough to withstand the pressure exerted by the spring. I had replaced two Campy SR 12SP FDs so far; the first time out of my own pocket and the second time with the Campagnolog's 3-year manufacturing warranty.

When the first time I noticed the FD issue, I thought I have caused the failure by natural use. It was an odd one to figure out. So I just replaced it. Then I did not ride this bike with a brand new FD installed for a little over 2 months. One day I found a small piece of metal below where I hang the F12, which was the tip of the lever arm holding the FD spring. It naturally broke off. I did some research into this and reported the issue to Campagnolo HQ via Campagnolo USA. The answer I got from them is they are looking into changing the material and/or metallurgic process. Everything else is great. Eventually, they will change the material or manufacturing process. Until then, I might be going to a local bike shop to replace more FDs hopefully under the warranty.

Internal cabling: I took this bike to a mechanic who used to work for pro teams. He said this was the hardest bike to route the internal cables through its integrated headset (I bought this bike when Dogma F12 came out pretty much). I have Pinarello's own Most Ultra Talon integrated handlebar and stem. The brake cables contain oil-based hydraulic fluids. Therefore any twists and turns of brake cables inside the integrated handlebar/headset should not affect breaking performances. I don't feel it. The front and rear derailleur use metal wires (cables) and semi-elastic plastic housings for the metal wires. For my non-pro and casual riding styles, I do not feel any degradation in their shifting qualities assuming there are the twists and turns of cable housing inside the headset. However, the cable longevity and shifting performance could be further observed to determine any negative long-term effects."

I think there's a guy on this forum by the name of graeme who's a rep for Campagnolo. If you're reading this can you provide further insight regarding the reliability issue with the front derailleur?
Last edited by engsohere on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
engsohere
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:19 pm

by engsohere

Delete post

octav
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:40 pm
Location: Bucharest

by octav

engsohere wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:07 am
Hi all, I reached out to a current F12 owner running SR mechanical disc groupset. He has had the bike for over a year and was nice enough to send me a detailed reply:

"The current/newest version of Campagnolo Super Record 12 Speed Groupset's (Campy SR 12SP) Front Derailleur (FD) has a failure mode that needs design change/material change, at least in my opinion. This failure mode could be either caused by an engineering problem (using weaker Young's modulus materials) or production process problem (manufacturing process that weakens material properties); or both. In layman's terms, the lever arm that holds the FD spring in place over time ruptures itself. The lever arm that holds the FD spring in itself is not strong enough to withstand the pressure exerted by the spring. I had replaced two Campy SR 12SP FDs so far; the first time out of my own pocket and the second time with the Campagnolog's 3-year manufacturing warranty.

When the first time I noticed the FD issue, I thought I have caused the failure by natural use. It was an odd one to figure out. So I just replaced it. Then I did not ride this bike with a brand new FD installed for a little over 2 months. One day I found a small piece of metal below where I hang the F12, which was the tip of the lever arm holding the FD spring. It naturally broke off. I did some research into this and reported the issue to Campagnolo HQ via Campagnolo USA. The answer I got from them is they are looking into changing the material and/or metallurgic process. Everything else is great. Eventually, they will change the material or manufacturing process. Until then, I might be going to a local bike shop to replace more FDs hopefully under the warranty.

Internal cabling: I took this bike to a mechanic who used to work for pro teams. He said this was the hardest bike to route the internal cables through its integrated headset (I bought this bike when Dogma F12 came out pretty much). I have Pinarello's own Most Ultra Talon integrated handlebar and stem. The brake cables contain oil-based hydraulic fluids. Therefore any twists and turns of brake cables inside the integrated handlebar/headset should not affect breaking performances. I don't feel it. The front and rear derailleur use metal wires (cables) and semi-elastic plastic housings for the metal wires. For my non-pro and casual riding styles, I do not feel any degradation in their shifting qualities assuming there are the twists and turns of cable housing inside the headset. However, the cable longevity and shifting performance could be further observed to determine any negative long-term effects."

I think there's a guy on this forum by the name of gaffek who's a rep for Campagnolo. If you're reading this can you provide further insight regarding the reliability issue with the front derailleur?
Exactly the same happened to me :) I will send it back this week to Bike24; will see what it happens

User avatar
engsohere
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:19 pm

by engsohere

[/quote]Exactly the same happened to me :) I will send it back this week to Bike24; will see what it happens
[/quote]

Are you running the SR mechanical on Dogma F12? If so, any functional or reliability issues with routing the internal cables thru the headset?

Post Reply