Ghost Nivolet EBS LC (6.27kg)

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StanK
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Location: Croatia

by StanK

I first visited this site some 13 - 14 years ago, drolling on bikes that were about 5kg, almost not believing it is actually possible.

No, this will not be about some sub 5kg bike, or even sub 6kg, but "only" sub 7kg. In fact, not even sub 7kg right now, but my goal is to get there. The main reasons will be mentioned a little later.
And I have to apologize in advance, since English is not my native language, so there will be some strange sentences, for sure.

Last summer unplannedly I came across on very good offer: 2 years old, well preserved GHOST Nivolet EBS for $1200. RRP price was $3000. First of all, I must say, I have not seen any "Ghost" presented on this site. So, this may be first one :mrgreen:
And contrary to the present trend (matte black) this one is glossy white. That's why, somehow, I like it even more :)

Now it looks like this and currently bike weighting 7254g.

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And one from short ride month ago, with Michelin Lithion2 tires. To me, looks better that way, I must say :cry:

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Some measures will be approximate with very small deviations, because I do not intend now to disassemble the bike right up to the smallest screw to get everything on to scale. Ultegra groupset components weight has mainly been taken from Internet, as well as frame/fork weight (black bold). It may be couple of grams up or down, but nothing significant. Only on few components (red) can be slightly larger deviations. Everything else (blue bold) is personally measured.
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As I said, my goal is to lower it just under 7kg. That wouldn't be a general problem, but there are a few limitations I do not intend to cross. After that would be very nice to go below UCI limit (and became true weight weenie :mrgreen: ), although these 200 grams could be "very expensive 200g". We'll see about that.
After all, this is in fact a budget weight saving project. I will swap some parts where I can get some significant weight saving (for not so crazy money), but I will not swap, for example, all Ultegra parts for Dura Ace or Sram Red. That would not make sense.

So, limitations …

1. No tubulars
I don't wanna to start messing with them now, when I haven't for 30 years. I have nothing against them just ... I don't want to go there.

2. No deep rims
Yeah, with good looking 50mm rims almost every bike looks much better. But I think cross wind would be a real problem for me and on some roads that I ride - real danger (traffic with lots of trucks, buses ... long vehicles and not so wide road). Up to 30mm is fine … so, only shallow rims, please.

3. Only SPD pedals (cleats)
This may sound odd but ...
I want to be able to walk normally in cycling shoes. I have been using the SPD for the last 20 years and although it may be similar options out there (in terms of "normal" walking), I think they are either a lot expensive or ... maybe not even there.
In Shimano price range found only Ritchey Micro WCS Pedals (considerably lighter), but I gave up on them because the reviews were mostly "while they last they working well, but they do not last long".

4. I want a functional, silent and low maintenance bike for daily use. I'm not racing, riding is just for pleasure. Of course I'm not just crusing around, I ride fastest I could, but enjoyment of ride is first factor. So, few grams up to add durability, confort and less time consuming is permittable. Sorry! :)

That for example means ...
- no latex tubes (for 50g saving I don't want to pump tires every day - for as I heard it is the case)
- no super light/thin tyres (I don't want to save 50-60g only to add resonable risk of frequent punctures)
- no super light and slim brake/shifting cables that will quickly strech and like
- no too thin handlebar tape that will not provide the appropriate comfort.
- It must be few things more, but can't remember right now ;)


Now I have TRP R970SL brakes on the way, so that would be some 110g down, and cca. 7150g in total.
Since this is "budget weight s(h)aving" (and with the mentioned limitations) there are only few places left where I can take down a few dozen grams, while not spending too much.

Obviously, the wheels, but I really like those Mavic Ksyrium Elite S and they are not too heavy. But if I want to go sub 6.8, I will have to change them. For sub 7kg ... maybe not.

Other places ...
Housing and cables might be first place.
Handlebar, maybe some but not too much, so I doubt - we will see ... and that is it.
Cassette will probably be replaced at the end of next year, it's not that old yet. That would be 50g down with (probably) Dura Ace.

So, I would really appreciate any suggestion for some quality light wheelset. Let's say that budget is cca. $1000 and for that I expect cca. 200g lighter wheelset. But please bear in mind, I really wouldn't like to end up with wheelset that's worse than the current Mavics. I really don't have any complaint on them, only want something lighter.

I see some Tune TSR 30, 22 to fit the budget. Maybe even Skyline RR at some extra cost. Any thoughts on them?
Last edited by StanK on Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:00 am, edited 10 times in total.

Alumen
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm

by Alumen

Nice ride !

In terms of weight savings:

100 gram gain if you go for the Ksyrium Pro's...
200 gram gain if you go for the Ksyrium Carbon's...

Do you climb a lot or not ? If not, then I definitely would go for a 11-23 spider. The win with Ultegra is already ~30 grams and even ~80 grams for the Dura Ace one.

Otherwise, you maybe can gain some minor grams on with your bar tape and tyres.

It will be an expensive 200 gram save for sure, but hey, don't think about that too much !
CAAD 10 2015

by Weenie


reedplayer
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by reedplayer

looks good.
very cheap saving of at least 30 gr.: deda bartape. i think its still comfortable, (could not notice any difference to fizik, which is clearly heavier),
but of course i dont know your demands.
your bontrager xxx cages really weigh 48 gr? mine weigh 24gr/pair, w/out bolts. maybe you could save a few gram by using lighter bolts?
regards

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StanK
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by StanK

Alumen@

Yeah, the easiest thing to do is to burn some money :mrgreen:

11-23 would be too much for my knees. There are no long and exhausting ascents on my rides, but there are more than few places where the gradient kicks off over 10-12%, so the 11-28 must stay.

Tires are new, not a one month old and will sure stay for some time. I think that represent a good balance of rolling and puncture resistance and weight. Not a WW tire for sure, but I'm willing to sacrifice a couple of dozen grams here, for my peace of mind.

Handlebar tape ... 10, maybe 20 grams is possible. Not much, but it would be tight, so it matters. But I don't want too thin tape.

Btw. Now I see that Ksyrium Pro Exalith SL (alu rims) is actually lighter than Ksyrium Pro Carbon SL hence I'm more interested in that. And there is a bonus too ... they are cheaper :D Although, doesn't have to be Mavic - Ksyrium Elite S came with a bike, that's all. But, as I said, I have no objections, so I have nothing against continuing with Mavic either.
I just wish they were not so ... all matte black :(
Last edited by StanK on Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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StanK
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by StanK

reedplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:23 pm
very cheap saving of at least 30 gr.: deda bartape. i think its still comfortable, (could not notice any difference to fizik, which is clearly heavier), but of course i dont know your demands.
30g? Then it's a 40g tape, and I doubt I'd be happy with that. Although, I didn't put my Cube Cork Tape on scale, just found info of 72g (might be wrong, of course). I cutted some of it, so it might be somewhere around 60g.
Probably will do in few days, when I'm about to put handlebar on scale to see exact weight.
reedplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:23 pm
your bontrager xxx cages really weigh 48 gr? mine weigh 24gr/pair, w/out bolts. maybe you could save a few gram by using lighter bolts?
16g cage alone, bolts are 8g pair. So, in total - 48g. If yours are just 12g per cage, maybe it's a fake :D https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 3&t=153855

Yes, I would change bolts for lighter ones (and not steel-looking) that's already a plan. I could save some 10g there with alu bolts.

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VTR1000SP2
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by VTR1000SP2

I think a THM, Lightning, or eeWings crankset would be less than $1000 and a significant savings weight wise, easily shaving >200gr.


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Klaster_1
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by Klaster_1

Take a look at Xpedo R-Force Ti, these are single-sided SPDs at 166g, I upgraded from A600 a couple years ago and never regretted.

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StanK
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by StanK

VTR1000SP2 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:12 am
I think a THM, Lightning, or eeWings crankset would be less than $1000 and a significant savings weight wise, easily shaving >200gr.
Uh, I don't think so. I quickly looked but for cranks without rings is around $1000. This should be "budget saving" :D
Ok, for wheels I'm willing to spend cca. $1000-1200, but everything else should be far less than that.
Last edited by StanK on Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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StanK
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by StanK

Klaster_1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:29 am
Take a look at Xpedo R-Force Ti, these are single-sided SPDs at 166g, I upgraded from A600 a couple years ago and never regretted.
Never heard of it, but looks very, very interesting. Now I wish that didn't purchase A-600 a little over month ago :( Price is more than double of A-600, but seems pedals to be pretty durable, so price isn't too bad for 130g saving.
Thanks for tip :thumbup:

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StanK
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by StanK

Couldn't resist, so I ordered the pedals. I can't drop 125g anywhere else for that kind of money. I just hope it will be OK for my knees.

Also ordered some alu bolts for bidon cages, seat post clamp (white one :D ) and Cinelli cork bar tape, all for some relativelly minor weight saving. With all that (and with TRP brakes coming), weight should drop just under 7kg. It will be tight, so can't wait to put everything on scale. Hope I wouldn't be short for gram or two :cry:

Especially because I ordered new stem too (New Ultimate EVO, 120mm), which should add couple of grams (10mm longer that Ghost stem - I think it's same Kalloy Uno style, possible the weight too).

Btw. today I realize that the seat bolt is "impressive" 14g (M5x60mm), and similar situation is with stem cap/bolt combo in this regard - 5+8g (M6x35mm).

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With some Ti bolts and a nicer stem cap :) I could drop some 10g.

Boy, this bolts/screws/rings are everywhere, and I almost didn't think of it at all. 5g there, 10g over there ... and soon we have 50-100g "out of nowhere" :unbelievable:

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StanK
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by StanK

As I said, I wanted to go sub 7kg, maybe sub 6.8kg and that would be it.
After some consideration, what would be smartest way to drop some weight I decided to change the wheels, see what it would be like to drive some super light stuff (for clinchers). And, therefore, I got huge weight reduction there (-337g).

Wheels of choice are Spada Stiletto, with some new "Hertz" hubs, not even on their web site yet. I did a couple of rides and that is enough for me to know is it something good to me or not. I can honestly say that I lost nothing compared to previous Ksyrium Elite S. Except weight, of course :mrgreen:
Wheels is stiff (no stiffer than Ksyrium, but no worse either, just about the same), actually all behaviour was pretty similar to Mavic. And that's exactly what I wanted /hoped for and now I am pretty happy for that.

Of course, with such a light wheels, time would tell. I hope spokes wouldn't want to go out of the rims after year or two. Spada makes wheels for some 25 years now and that alone sound pretty assuring.

And, in the end, I really like how the wheels have visually turned up (I've exchanged more than a few emails with Spada, just regarding look of wheels), especially how the golden nipples corelate with Lithion tires.
I was really afraid that new wheels would be worse looking than Ksyrium (because rim is all black and I liked black/alu look of Ksyriums), but somehow it ended up slightly better looking.

Just couple of pictures accidentally taken indoor few days ago. Not that nice weather to go out and take some appropriate photos.

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Beside wheels, I changed some other stuff, some of them mentioned in previous post, so here is a summary:

Brakes (TRP R970SL with Shimano R55C4 brake pads ... instead of Ultegra 6800, with probably same pads) -126 g

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Cassette (BDop Cycling, Steel 11-28 instead of Ultegra 6800) -57 g

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Chain ( PYC SP1101, 106 links instead of Shimano CN-HG600) - 27 g

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Seatpost clamp (Carbon Ti X-Clamp 3 instead of Ghost) -13 g

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Cage bolts (Carbon TI Alu instead of Bontrager) -12 g

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Wheels (Spada Stiletto ) -337 g

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In total, 572g of weight reduction.
Sorry, pictures are taken purelly for documentation only., few of them in some sort of hurry :D

Unfortunately, In process I added some grams with tires. I put new/old ones.
I cannot resist to the look of Michelin Lithion 2, the most beautiful tire for my eyes and for the bike - more than decent for riding, little more wider than the Michelin Endurance V2, for the same 23mm, and for that reason a little more comfortable and with added confidence when cornering. Which is of huge importance to me.

Truth to be told, from 7254 g to 6996 g in just 4 months is something that I never expected I would do.
So, now at 6996g. it would be really missed opportunity to not go sub 6.5kg and REALLY draw the line. I hope :mrgreen:
Because, after that I really don't have any sane way of putting weight significantly down - without spending 1-2k dollars/euros, and that's would be too crazy.
I already spended more that I though I would, so … 6.5kg is, in some way, end of the world for me. Nothing compared to some really exciting sub 5-6kg stuff here, but…

Of course, claimed weight wouldn't be real without some "bike on the scale" shot. From my LBS (actually, 70km from my home, but…)

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I have practically the same result to the gram on my small table scale (yes, that from above pictures) that can actually measure up to 15kg. I weighed the bike in four "parts" (front wheel, rear wheels, frame and all attached to it and seat combo). So, it is double checked :)


New list ... updated


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Ok, last 200g ....

First of all, Xpedo R-Force Ti pedals would be purchased for sure. They are 167g and that is 125g less than Shimano A600. Actually, I already bought Xpedo, then return it … There is a topic on that, not that interesting.

Bar tape would be change … there I expect cca. 15g of weight drop.

Everything from the list in blue would stay. No change there. Only things in black (except for frame and fork, of course), red and orange could be replaced. So, not too many choices and that could be very interesting.



So, last 60g … where real "fun" begins :wink:

Handlebar … I don't like idea of carbon bar - only way I could drop 60g there. For 10,20, 30g … I don't wanna bother, plus, handlebar is just fine.

Cables and housing … impossible to drop 60g there with something really reliable. And, more so, last year I change all wires and housing. Not super light, but not super heavy either.

Rear and front derailleur (Dura Ace 9000 - sorry, better looking that 9100, at least for me) I think would be best option. Especially SH.

DA 9000 crankset too is the option. That would be cca. 60g. less and … here we go - 6.5kg. Nothing else has to touch / change. Only problem; is not cheap - 300 dollars for well preserved SH piece. It is little too much for just good looks. And 60 grams, of course .

And … with (now) silver coloured cassette and chain, black Ultegra crankset looks a bit more "in place", giving more contrast … so I'm not sure I really want replace it with DA 9000. I never tought i would say that. 
Sometimes is really interesting how some small changes relate with some other stuff.

Last option - shifters … most expensive (even litle more than crankset) and most unwellcomed, because look is pretty much like my Ultegra and, from what I read, it works almost the same. And is just 50g down, so … I don't think so.

Any thoughts, especially about these "last 60g.", are more than welcome. But, right now I'm in no hurry. :mrgreen:

mcfarton
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by mcfarton

Handle bars will be the cheapest and most effective. It will also give you a chance to re do your bar tape


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Klaster_1
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by Klaster_1

Darimo bars would save you ~120g. There's a R9100 mini group still available in deals section. The headset can be replaced with CC AER or FSA SL-ACB. Jagwire XEX-SL housing is on a light side and doesn't cost much.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

You made the first pic on a (Belgian??) highway

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StanK
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by StanK

mcfarton wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:12 am
Handle bars will be the cheapest and most effective. It will also give you a chance to re do your bar tape

In a month or so I will re do my handlebar tape anyway (Cinelli Original Cork Ribbon + plugs are on hold),

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I just wait to see which stem I would be using in the end.

As I said, I don't want carbon handlebar (or stem, for that matter).
And to just add, regarding Klaster_1 suggestion ...
All this weight saving is aiming to be more-or-less in "budget sector", as I mentioned in first post here. So, for me, Darimo handlebar at 399 € ... :shock: ... is very far from that. For half of that price I would think about it. :D

Headset change is good idea and already on my radar. Especially as I want to replace headset top cap that is highish 14mm. My LBS already tried some things, but ... We would see. Thanks for the tips there.

And with some housing change combined would be maybe just enought. Problem is ... I don't know weight of that Shimano i Jagwire housing that is now on bike. I'll look around for the weights and see how much weight I could get drop with XEX-SL.

by Weenie


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