Dogma Build - Technical Questions (and answers hopefully)

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alistaird
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by alistaird

All

On this thread I'm documenting my build. https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153411 and thought I'd keep that thread clean and as detailed as possible.

But I have a number of pre-build and probably in build questions which I'm hoping the experts here can help with. I find this forum has the best advice I've seen around technical issues.

So first pre-build question....

The Dogma has an Italian BB and the frame I've got is an ex Demo frame so hardly ridden but has been built up. I've tried lightly threading the Rotor 30mm bearings into the frame but they are very stiff and it looks like there is a lot of 'threadlock' in the frame bb. From the research I've done, it looks normal for Pinarello to put loctite/threadlock in their new frames. So the questions:

- Should I remove the loctite?
- If so, how? Get the LBS to run the threads through with a tap or can I do it myself with a suitable solvent?
- Most importantly - on assembly of the Rotor 30mm bearings into the frame - if I've removed the threadlock/locitte - should I re-use similar or just use copperslip or similar to prevent siezing of the BB?

The last question I know seems a bit contradictory but I've also seen various answers and wondered what the considered opinion was? On my Colnago E1 I just used Copperslip and it never came loose - took quite a bit of effort to unscrew the Tune BB cups before sending the frame for a respray but to be fair I only did about 1000 miles on that assembly so not a real test.

Thanks and there will be more questions I'm sure...

A
Last edited by alistaird on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

DJT21
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by DJT21

You need something on the threads that prevents the BB unscrewing itself, so copperslip is not a good idea. Loctite or Teflon tape should work.

by Weenie


Vermu
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by Vermu

Why would You need loctite? The thread is opposite to pedal rotation ie shouldnt come off ever if properly installed.
On non-threaded bb it’s an issue but in order to keep it from being inmovable object I would use copper paste.

And yes You should clean the old loctite.



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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I use anti seize on threads (italian too ) and never had one un wind either. Do the cups up nice and tight and they wont unscrew.

in fact i used anti seize on the alloy cups on my old steel sannino this morning.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

You really just want something in there to prevent corrosion. The Italian cups won’t come loose if they’re probably torqued. Campy threaded cups come with a fair bit of dried threadlocker on the threads in spots. I like to remove most of that simply by running an awl around the threads. Copperbased antiseize works well to prevent corrosion and galling but it’s just so damn messy and really difficult to clean off your frame if you get a bit on it. So I’ve been using Morgan Blue AquaProof Paste instead.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Vermu wrote:Why would You need loctite? The thread is opposite to pedal rotation ie shouldnt come off ever if properly installed.
On non-threaded bb it’s an issue but in order to keep it from being inmovable object I would use copper paste.

And yes You should clean the old loctite.



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Italian threaded BB’s will definitely unscrew themselves through the process of “precession” if not properly torqued. But it was more prevalent when the bearings were loose (pre cartridge bearings) or in cages and they rotated directly against the inner surfaces of the threaded in cups.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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alistaird
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by alistaird

Thanks all so far... Opinion seems to to torque correctly with antisieze.. now to get the LBS to run a tap through it to clean out the antisieze...

Now to work out the headset bearings.....

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I would probably not run a tap through the threads at this point. They are very sharp and if it’s already been done once or if there’s already been cups installed, that aspect of things should be fine unless the threads got damaged somehow. Generally, I would only run taps through a brand new shell to chase them a bit and remove small burrs etc, and if the frame warrants it (not all do), do a quick facing of the shell. But unless it’s super hard to screw the cups into the shell, I’d just clean the threads out as best I could, then apply antisieze to the threads of the shell and the cups then torque them down.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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alistaird
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by alistaird

Calnago wrote:I would probably not run a tap through the threads at this point. They are very sharp and if it’s already been done once or if there’s already been cups installed, that aspect of things should be fine unless the threads got damaged somehow. Generally, I would only run taps through a brand new shell to chase them a bit and remove small burrs etc, and if the frame warrants it (not all do), do a quick facing of the shell. But unless it’s super hard to screw the cups into the shell, I’d just clean the threads out as best I could, then apply antisieze to the threads of the shell and the cups then torque them down.
@Calnago

Thanks, sounds like a plan. I can get the cups about 1/2 way in by hand so will try with the cup spanner later this week to see...

A

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Geoff
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by Geoff

I think I would agree with Calnago. A tap is probably the wrong tool, but you may also have a problem effectively removing the loctite with solvent and a brush alone. I recommend chasing the threads instead. That tool should solve all your problems.

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alistaird
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by alistaird

Geoff wrote:I think I would agree with Calnago. A tap is probably the wrong tool, but you may also have a problem effectively removing the loctite with solvent and a brush alone. I recommend chasing the threads instead. That tool should solve all your problems.
Geoff

Thanks but pardon my ignorance but what tool should I use for chasing the threads?

A



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Calnago
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by Calnago

Not sure of anything but a proper taps to be used for actually chasing the threads properly. That’s what chasing the threads is. Probably not too many places have Italian threaded taps however. I do and other than chasing threads of new Italian frames and saving a Colnago Dream which had a seized BB, there’s not much call for them anymore. I’m sure if you just use a proper tool to screw in the cups back and forth a couple times that would be fine. But don’t use loctite threadlocker when reinstalling, just an antiseize.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Geoff
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by Geoff

I have lots of really old tools, including a set of taps that don't have a 'channel' to remove any crud removed from existing threads. All they do is form the threads. It works really well for old steel bikes where the 'usual' problem is cross-threading. They have a bit of a 'shape' to them that holds oil, but they don't take cuttings or junk caught in exising threads. That tap won't work. Whatever tool you use will need to have those 'chasing' channels to allow the loctite to fall into.

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alistaird
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by alistaird

Used an older set of Tune cups in and out gradually and cleaning the threads regularly, seated the cups both sides. Will try again after a bit more soaking in oil to clean out the residue. Thanks for the tips.

A

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by Weenie


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alistaird
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by alistaird

Now, think I'll leave the headset alone as it feels nice and smooth and the Pinarello ones are a PITA..

A




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