Ryan's Forever Bike: A Litespeed T1sl #tongue-in-cheek

[Imaking20]

Ryan, that sounds great. Yeah, after multiple builds in a few months...it becomes second nature...especially with whom to order because certain places ship with precision and others like you said, tend to sit on it for awhile. i have to check out the Fizik tacky tape. I've been using the Bontrager Supertack tape which feels similar to the Shimano hood material...and since I ride without gloves these days, I want something that stands up to sweaty days on the saddle. Its been really humid out east...unlike CA dry-ish conditions.

I tend to order from the sister company of Western bike, Biketiresdirect, since they have a loyalty program that gives you points for purchases. In your case, you can build up tons of points fairly quick. Haven't ridden the Malibu Canyon in years, but when I did...there were some choppy sections, especially in certain key areas that'll rattle your teeth...including areas of Mulholland where it hasnt been paved in a decade. The build looks great and if I ever get rid of my Guru, I'd be all over the T1SL. Nice job!

Random fact(s); BTD is actually the warehouse for WBW. Both companies offer loyalty rewards

[spdntrxi]

^ good to know.. the company I ordered from took nearly a week to ship and then shipped me some incorrect items to delay me more... I didn't do my research.

[RyanH]

@godzuki
I installed it with copper paste so we'll see. It's been quiet so far but with the CK it took a good six months or so. The long term solution would be Loctite 609 but I didn't want to do that to only find out it wasn't compatible. The Origin has same spindle and dimensions as the Clavicula so the Lightning BB will work. You can thank mdeth for suggesting that on one of the other threads.

@4ibanez
It's 83g, so about 20g less than the latest THM thread together BBs.


Build List

[kode54]

good to know that WBW offers rewards. usually, they have the same items, so i keep all my points in one place!

Ryan, that sounds great. Yeah, after multiple builds in a few months...it becomes second nature...especially with whom to order because certain places ship with precision and others like you said, tend to sit on it for awhile. i have to check out the Fizik tacky tape. I've been using the Bontrager Supertack tape which feels similar to the Shimano hood material...and since I ride without gloves these days, I want something that stands up to sweaty days on the saddle. Its been really humid out east...unlike CA dry-ish conditions.

I tend to order from the sister company of Western bike, Biketiresdirect, since they have a loyalty program that gives you points for purchases. In your case, you can build up tons of points fairly quick. Haven't ridden the Malibu Canyon in years, but when I did...there were some choppy sections, especially in certain key areas that'll rattle your teeth...including areas of Mulholland where it hasnt been paved in a decade. The build looks great and if I ever get rid of my Guru, I'd be all over the T1SL. Nice job!

Random fact(s); BTD is actually the warehouse for WBW. Both companies offer loyalty rewards

[KarlC]

It's been a month since I've been on the T3 and I sold it before doing an actual back to back with the Wilier.

When I first got the Wilier, my initial impression was that it was close in comfort to the T3, any difference was neglible. However, last night when I did a test ride around my neighborhood, which has a good mix of seriously broken pavement, I thought my tires lost 20psi since there was such a stark difference. Imaking20 first noted this, but the most striking difference of a comfortable carbon frame and a titanium frame is how smooth it feels in the pedals. You can feel the comfort in your legs. I did a few small efforts last night and the stiffness felt comparable to the Wilier, which is good but it had a distinct liveliness to it that I had previously glossed over when going from one frame back to the T3, but it stood out last night. I still think the Wilier is the best descending bike but that didn't stop me from getting a few PRs today on some of my frequent descents.

Coming from disc, braking with 9100 is interesting. At first it feels like you have no power but when you get on it, it matches disc as far as I'm concerned. One of the descents today in particular favors disc a lot since it's super sketchy (coming down from the Hollywood sign for those that have done it). On the wilier I set a pr of 20s (to be fair, I never really mobbed that descent) but today I shaved another 20s and felt just as in control.

While I only have a single ride in the frame, so keep that in mind, I'm fairly certain that this frame is at least as good as the T3, if not better.

So are you saying that you no longer think the Wilier was as close in comfort to the T3 or the the T1sl as you had thought in the past ??

Also the same question as to the Wiliers liveliness ?

I have been considering getting a wilier cento 10 air so your and Imaking20 expert experiance is valued.

Thx

.

[4ibanez]

Thanks for the info on the BB Ryan.

I remember you had some creaking issues with the T3, and the BB was a bit of a red herring in the end - but you installed and reinstalled several times to try and flush out the problem IIRC...

Thinking about the Lightning BB (aluminium cups) for my Supersix (carbon PF30), would you recommend to install with any epoxy/loctite, or just install dry? Assume copper paste is a metal on metal specific solition?

[Gearjunkie]

Sorry to jump in, and take this with a grain of salt if you like, but with my Evo I had endless creaking issues with the standard PF30 BB and a replacement Ceramic Speed BB. Ended up using the recommended Locktite solution which reduced (but didn't eliminate) the creaking but that made it a total mission to remove the BB when it came time.

Ended up having to push the bearings out (sans cups) and then cut the plastic cups out of the frame. Not good fun.

Then went to a Hawk Racing PF30 BB that has alloy cups (so similar to your Lightning BB) and just used ordinary marine grease to install. Perfect, never had a problem, zero creaking. I think the alloy cups just fit better / don't distort like the plastic cups can, so don't need Locktite. For me anyways.

Just my 2c.
Cheers
GJ

[RyanH]

My creaking nightmare was caused by the derailleur hanger of all things.

If the fit is nice and tight, you shouldn't need loctite. I usually check by trying to press in by hand first. If I can get it in much at all, like the two Crumpton where I was able to press them almost all the way in, then loctite 609. For metal bottom brackets I generally use copper paste regardless of cup material.

@KarlC
Whatever difference there is, it's only going to be noticeable on a back to back ride. By the second day it was business as usual.

Bottom line is if I had to ride a Cento10air for the rest of my life, I'd be perfectly fine with that (in rim brake of course).

[Frankie - B]

since you are all taking about PF30 and creaks, isn't that why some brilliant minds understood the issue and cut a thread in the PF30 shell? On top of that, you can cut a thread in any metal PF30 bb shell and screw in a T47 BB. Problem solved.
I don't wan't to start a bb war, but I still cannot understand why a bb30 is superior to a BSA system. The only thing I can think of is a wider base for tubes to be weld on.

[rlpaul]

Some frame builders like it for the ability to weld to a wider area. But other standards help with that too, like the T47 you mentioned, or even better, BB386.

I think from a compatibility perspective, PF30 (and T47 by extension) is nice since there isn't a modern crank you can't install. I'm still using 10 year old SiSLs because they're bombproof, and still relatively light. But I can't install it cleanly on anything but a 68mm BB30 based system.

Honestly, any Press Fit system (and to a lesser degree, threaded) can creak if tolerances aren't good on the frame. @hambini has a good video on why, and I believe he started down that route because of a Cervelo, which was never PF30. I'd trust Litespeed to have straight and square tubing, so it should just come down to proper installation.

[KWalker]

It's been a month since I've been on the T3 and I sold it before doing an actual back to back with the Wilier.

When I first got the Wilier, my initial impression was that it was close in comfort to the T3, any difference was neglible. However, last night when I did a test ride around my neighborhood, which has a good mix of seriously broken pavement, I thought my tires lost 20psi since there was such a stark difference. Imaking20 first noted this, but the most striking difference of a comfortable carbon frame and a titanium frame is how smooth it feels in the pedals. You can feel the comfort in your legs. I did a few small efforts last night and the stiffness felt comparable to the Wilier, which is good but it had a distinct liveliness to it that I had previously glossed over when going from one frame back to the T3, but it stood out last night. I still think the Wilier is the best descending bike but that didn't stop me from getting a few PRs today on some of my frequent descents.

Coming from disc, braking with 9100 is interesting. At first it feels like you have no power but when you get on it, it matches disc as far as I'm concerned. One of the descents today in particular favors disc a lot since it's super sketchy (coming down from the Hollywood sign for those that have done it). On the wilier I set a pr of 20s (to be fair, I never really mobbed that descent) but today I shaved another 20s and felt just as in control.

While I only have a single ride in the frame, so keep that in mind, I'm fairly certain that this frame is at least as good as the T3, if not better.

So by shedding 20s off a PR that was 20s itself did you effectively just teleport?

[RyanH]

So by shedding 20s off a PR that was 20s itself did you effectively just teleport?

Yes, working on combining with time travel so I can shave off more time.

Yeah, that was supposed to read: "I set a PR by 20s"

[NiFTY]

since you are all taking about PF30 and creaks, isn't that why some brilliant minds understood the issue and cut a thread in the PF30 shell? On top of that, you can cut a thread in any metal PF30 bb shell and screw in a T47 BB. Problem solved.
I don't wan't to start a bb war, but I still cannot understand why a bb30 is superior to a BSA system. The only thing I can think of is a wider base for tubes to be weld on.

Maybe i am a unique case but i have installed pf30 bbs on 3 bikes - evo, slice rs and a tarmac sl3 and have never had a creak from a bb. Why fo builders prefer a pf30? The same reason that all frametubes have got wider and lighter.

[asiantrick]

so in your conclusion, is it worth it to upgrade from T3 to T1sl? Or you get the best bang for the bucks with the T3?

[Imaking20]

T3 no longer made... But the T2 is being discounted by Litespeed right now..