Another Stelbel Antenore

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mrfish
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland

by mrfish

After many years riding various Parlees I fancied a metal bike again after last having one as my main bike pre millenium. After much internet viewing, in particular the reviews from CyclingTips, GranFondo and posts here from longstanding weightweenies, I decided I'd like a Stelbel. This week I visited the team in Bergamo to see the bikes in person. The team has just moved into a new building, so things were a bit temporary looking, so no photos, but certainly they plan to build out a great showroom, bike store and workshop.

After a detailed discussion with Barney and the team the bike will be as follows:

Bits
Frame: Stelbel Antenore, caliper brakes
Fork: standard 1 1/2" Columbus, King inset headset
Groupset: Campagnolo Record 12, 172.5mm mechanical. Gearing tbc
Wheels: Bora One 35, Vittoria 25mm Corsa 5+ clincher
Seatpost: pmp Titanium
Stem & Bars: Deda Superlegerro
Pedals: TBC as my Times are dying and need to be replaced
Tape: White
Saddle: Prologo Scratch Carbon, new or re-covered perhaps

Geometry
TBC by the team, what I've asked for is that they replicate my position on my medium-sized Z5SL. Stem should not be slammed, but allow for a couple of spacers in case I get fitter, so around 5mm higher than the Parlee which runs with conical spacer plus two small spacer rings. Front centre should be longer than the Parlee as it's not right that a 54.5cm top tube bike has toeclip overlap! Frame reach can be same as Parlee despite 5mm longer bar reach as Campag shifters are shorter than the DA9000 on the Parlee.

Colour
Dark metallic blue with debossed logo and signature, bright red accent. Or possibly Italian flag accent.
Bars, stem dark blue painted with matching slashmarks
Bare ti seatpost with painted Stelbel logo and slashmarks
Dark label Boras with natural cotton Vittorias.
White tape and saddle, ideally without logos.

Questions
Get my old Scratch Nack saddle re-covered to re-use to avoid Prologo logos? Needs to be somewhere in Europe or DIY.
Get weightweenie headset parts, skewers, cables etc? Thinking no at the moment.
Campagnolo power meter? Would be nice but crazy money. Praxis cranks + PM look and price is OK.
Time pedals again or Garmin PM pedals? If the Garmins are solid side to side and don't rock along the pedal axis then they would work.

I will add some more posts as the build emerges. Any opinions, hints or tips gratefully accepted. And happy to answer the odd question if you're considering a Stelbel.

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Lig
Posts: 317
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: UK

by Lig

Hey Mrfish,

That all sounds great.. when do you expect to receive the frame?

I had white tape on a recent build and it lasted about 2 weeks before I went to black as it looked dirty quick.... Difficult without seeing the frame, but I would go black tape and saddle.... Can you not buy a new saddle? It will probably cost more to get yours retrimmed if you can find someone to do it or go the whole hog (bartape and saddle) from Busyman :D http://busymanbicycles.blogspot.com/

I dont think its worth getting weight weenie small parts.... I found the biggest improvement on my Stelbel was the wheels. I would go with the lightest possible (unless you already have the 35s) as the bike will be relatively weighty (compared to your carbon rides). The light wheels (rolling mass) do help offset this and deffo made mine enjoyable to ride.....

Looking forward to the pics.... :popcorn:

Cheers,
Lig.

by Weenie


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Calnago
Posts: 6467
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Fun project, and nicely thought out. Couple of things come to mind...
1) No to weenie skewers/headset parts etc. especially skewers. Want creak free, trouble free, solid wheel connection to your frame... then use the Campy skewers with your Boras.
2) No to weenie cables, especially with the new Campy 12 stuff. They have new cables. Use them, at least try them. It all works together. Don’t mess with perfection.
3) the Campy Power meter still has some questions looming about with regard to the crank based units and Campy 12sp. Possibly this will all be sorted out before you have to decide. Personally, I’d just forego the PM at this point and get the matching 12sp crank. If you decide you want a crank based PM later, and it is figured out that the new Campy rings will work with them, then you could always just buy the PM spider and put your 12sp rings on, with any associated spacers/mods that may or may not be required. Just don’t know yet.
4) Pedals: to me there is only one choice... Shimano DuraAce. End of story. Time’s are cheap feeling. Garmin’s use Look cleats. Shimano are durable, trouble free, super nice bearings, low profile, don’t cut your hands all up working on the damn things (can Time make their plastic edges any sharper), and the Shimano cleats last a long time and you can comfortably walk in them without sliding around like you’re on an ice rink.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

mrfish
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland

by mrfish

Thanks for the thoughts chaps.

WW parts are out then. I was riding along on my C40 the other day really enjoying the feeling of wind and sun when it dawned on me that a completely silent bike gives a different ride experience to one which sounds as if it’s going to fall apart any moment.

i just have to find out if Dura Ace Pedals work for me as my knees and hips don’t like pedals where the cleat can roll versus the pedal axle. I put Dura Ace SPD-R Pedals on my all-Campagnolo C40 when I got it, so maybe history will repeat itself.

Regarding lighter wheels, I completely agree. I have some Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimates, so can try those for races, sportifs and big climbing but I will get clinchers as well so I can swap to 27mm tyres for bunch riding in Italy as roads there sometimes appear not to have been maintained since Roman times.

For keeping bar tape and the matt white of my wife’s R3 top tube clean (well at least I didn’t buy the dumb P5 with the white chain stay!) you could try Motorex brake cleaner. Surprisingly it is less bad for your hands than other solvents yet it lifts dirt better than Muc Off bike wash, their brand of brake cleaner, wet wipes, white spirit, dish soap and other things I’ve tried. Also take an airline wet wipe pack in your puncture kit so only cleanish hands touch the tape.

Wookski
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

Don’t be afraid of WW components, there are some fantastic lightweight solutions out there that will maintain a silent ride.

Headset- Extralite make fantastic internal and external headsets that result in serious weight savings. Looking at circa 100g lighter than Chris King boat anchor and beatifully made in Italy.

Skewers- I have never experienced the noise issues other have, even with 29g Extralite streeters. If you’re looking for something robust try Tune AC-14, internal cam, very good clamping strength and 70g lighter than campagnolo.

Dura Ace pedals on an Italian frame with campagnolo components is very bad. If you have knee issues then speedplay could be a good solution and the pedals can be reliable tuned to a very low weight.

Agree with Calnago re: PM and cables. He is very knowledgeable but also super conservative.

Have a look at my Cherubim, not many compromises and a silent, sub 7kg Steel build.

Seedster
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm

by Seedster

I would stick with campagnolo record 12 groupset and opt for Look/SRM Exakt powermeter pedals. They are using the standard look cleats and should be reliable.

Everything else looks great. I think you could have some fun trying to lighten the build up with wheels and other odds and ends. That said, you cant go wrong with the reliable and high-performing spec you have listed. Look forward to seeing the build.

glam2deaf
Posts: 699
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:36 am

by glam2deaf

Agree on the Exakt pedals. That new SR 12 crank is too nice not to use.

RyanH
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by RyanH

If you look at my current build, it's a culmination of many years of trying and finding the lightest problem free, worry free parts. I need to update the build list but I've had nearly every boutique item on my build at one point.

Right now, there's not a single part (except the CK upper headset and possibly bars if I could find a lighter pair with the same profile... Oh and Clavicula SE if I wasn't running a PM) that I'd substitute for a lighter available component. I also went back to Record Differential brakes as they have better feel than eeBrakes and with kcnc pad holders are only 60g more.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

Wookski
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

RyanH wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:47 am
except the CK upper headset
CK upper is heavy!

Cool idea re: record brakes with kcnc holders, I love campagnolo brakes and always wished for a lighter version.

RyanH
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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by RyanH

Yeah, the Record brakes weigh 235g with the kcnc holders. I could probably swap some pieces to get them sub 230g.

Chris King headsets are somewhat annoying in my opinion. The grip lock system requires a significant amount of force to set correctly. I've had quite a few rides where I swapped a stem and it wasn't fully set or came undone a little somehow. So, Extralite lower since it's just an alloy cup and Enduro bearing and I have on my desk a Cane Creek slamset upper with full stainless bearing that will save 22g over the CK upper and it's only a few grams heavier than an AER upper (which was annoying as well).

What else? Ilinks for brakes are fantastic and I think provide improved braking over oem housing, but stick with oem housing for shift if you want perfect shifting. There's a bunch more small details that add up, but if you're careful in your selection, 6kg to 6.2kg for a titanium frame is a safe target and 6.5kg to 6.7kg for a steel frame (assuming 1700g) is a safe, worry free weight.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

If I’m reading you right, sounds like you don’t want movement in your pedals, or were you just talking about lateral movement and rocking? I run the red cleats (fixed) with the Shimano pedals and they are super solid. You need your position dialed in with fixed cleats but that just transferred over exactly from the yellow cleats I used before. Whether they have float or are fixed fixed the “neutral” position should be identical. But I get the whole Italian, or at least Euro thing, since who uses Campy pedals, solid as they are. When I built my C59 initially I tried the LOOK keo to blades for that very reason, an experiment that lasted for a hundred miles or so before I had the Shimano back on. But if you’re happy with the Times...
And while I’m not much of one for pedal based powermeters, as was just suggested by @Seedster and @glam2deaf, that new pedal based system by SRM/Look might be an interesting alternative since we’re unsure of the whole crank based Campy 12sp thing at this point. Plus, like the other poster side, why not keep the aesthetics of the new 12sp stuff consistent with the 12sp crank it was designed with.
Wookski wrote: Agree with Calnago re: PM and cables. He is very knowledgeable but also super conservative.
Ha! Thanks, I think. The knowledge comes from an innate curiosity as to how and why things work and a lifelong obsession with bicycles in general. Tinkering, pulling things apart just to put them back together, studying why they are designed the way they are, etc. Anyway, it’s my thing I guess. The conservatism is just a by-product of all that knowledge and experience gained over the years. :). If I have to tell one more person, without even looking, that the creak is coming from that ultralight ti-skewer they’re running... ha.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Wookski
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

RyanH wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:53 pm
6kg to 6.2kg for a titanium frame is a safe target and 6.5kg to 6.7kg for a steel frame (assuming 1700g) is a safe, worry free weight.
Spot on for target weights and you’ve inspired me to tune a set of campagnolo brakes for my spooky!

Only vintage bikes should be >7kg

Wookski
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm
The conservatism is just a by-product of all that knowledge and experience gained over the years. :).
Yeah it was totally a compliment- guys who
have significant knowledge tend to steer clear of flying too close to the sun with items that may be problematic.

c60rider
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Being a Time pedal user since the day they first appeared in the late 80s I went on to try Look for a period when the Time's went crazy price but I just couldn't get on with them. Hated the feel when my feet where clamped in unlike the time pedals where my feet felt like they were just resting on the pedals. When the RXS made an appearance, once they'd sorted the pedal body out that would crack mid-way then there's never been a better Time pedal. Just the bearings are a bit ropey and awkward to change though it is possible. But the feel of the foot on the pedal is like no other if you're used to them. Glad I saw they'd been discontinued and bought out 10 pairs at £50 each off Bike24. That's me in pedals for probably the rest of my days :oops:

mrfish
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland

by mrfish

@c60rider, exactly. I have about 8 bikes on rxs pedals and tempted to continue as the metal cleat lasts me typically a few years and feels good. The cheapest version works well and is not so much more than a set of cleats so ideal for commuting etc. Plenty on eBay.

Surprised there is no love here for the Garmin power pedals. Why would I buy the SRM pedals and pay 50% more for a PM which is functionally similar (discounting all the Garmin features nobody uses).

by Weenie


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