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4ibanez
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by 4ibanez

Love the pics you put up on IG. Never thought I'd really lust after a steel bike, but... just wow!

by Weenie


Wookski
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by Wookski

themidge wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:47 am
The handlebar set up and the grey bits on the forks/stays though...
What would you recommend from a handlebar setup perspective?

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themidge
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by themidge

Well, it might be that the bars and shifters don't work well together, but moving the shifters up a bit and rotating the bars down (so that the flat bits of the drops and of the shifters are parallel) would certainly improve things. Perhaps change the cable routing so both cables go on the inside of the bar's curve after leaving the shifter? I think that would make it look more aesthetically pleasing to my eye, and good looking positions tend to be the most comfortable because that's how the components were designed to be used. If the current set up is more comfortable, then stick with that.
The rest of the bike if fantastic, I really love glossy black paint :thumbup: .

Wookski
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by Wookski

themidge wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:10 am
but moving the shifters up a bit and rotating the bars down (so that the flat bits of the drops and of the shifters are parallel) would certainly improve things.
I was actually thinking the hoods need to move further down a little so they are in a classically racey position. I get where you’re coming from but associate that look more with ergo bars rather than deep classic bends.

I’d be keen to hear the thoughts of the overlord of classic bar aesthetics, Calnago.
Calnago wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:17 pm

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themidge
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by themidge

Those bars aren't really a 'true' classic bend though, they have a modern 'ergo' top section with a more classic hook and drop, so you treat them as if they were modern ergo bars with regards to the top section. At the most basic level, (IMO) the flat bits of classic bend drops should be parallel with the shifter.
Of course, I defer to the superior experience of Calnago in these matters :D.

mrfish
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by mrfish

The ends of classic bend bars aesthetically should be somewhere between flat and pointing at the rear brake bolt.

The brake levers look ok to me, whatever suits your wrists is fine. Just avoid Thibault Pinault (high) or Sean Yates (loooow) extremes.

Wookski
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by Wookski

themidge wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:07 pm
Those bars aren't really a 'true' classic bend though, they have a modern 'ergo' top section with a more classic hook and drop,
Dude the Tornovas are the same bend as the Rotundos with only difference being the ovalised tops- don’t mistake this with an ergo bend. Maybe it’s a Shimano thing but I just can’t deal with the sight of Campagnolo hoods that far up the curve.

@calnago’s C59 is a perfect example albeit on the superior shaped Deda Zero100 bars (if only they made this in carbon). “tips of Campy levers level with a line horizontal along the straight line edge of the flat drops.”

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I started a response to this this morning but then lost it before I finished. Out on a ride at the moment but I will try to say something later this evening when I can say more. I have worked with the Tornovas.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I'm going to have to circle back to this when I have more time, but thanks for the compliment on my C59 bars/setup etc. It's exactly the same on my Koppenberg as well. Deda's nomenclature for the bars is very confusing. The bars are use are not to be confused with Deda Zero's, which have the RHM (Rapid Hand Movement) bend that I'm not very fond of. The ones I use are Deda Zero 100 SHALLOW (no, I'm not yelling, that's just how they describe them). And I've said this before, at 135mm deep, there are a whole lot of other bars out there that are much more shallow. These are actually quite deep in comparison with todays crops of bars with some measuring only 125mm deep, ugh!. Anyway, the Tornova's are far from my favorite bar, and if you built this up yourself you already know why. That internal cable routing is really awful (unless they've changed it), for mechanical housing which well barely fit. It's no wonder you have the levers mounted maybe a stitch low on the bend, and yes, I do think they need to come up a bit as those bars are designed for a more flat transition from tops to hoods. Trouble is, it is REALLY hard to get the cables internally routed when the levers are in the right place. In fact, when it came to replace the first set of tape on these bars, I bypassed the internal routing altogether for a couple reasons... the first being what I just said, it's really hard to install and creates awful bends, and the second, kind of related is that i much prefer the derailleur cable routing to come out of the levers and over to the front through the much more relaxed channel out of the levers. If I recall you can't do that if you want to run them internally due to the way it has to enter the internal channels. You know what, I'm going to see my buddy whose bike I installed these on in the next couple of days. Pics always work much better when trying to describe things. I'll continue when I have more pics. But leave you with this. For bars with a flattish drop, long enough to actually put your whole hands on, I like to line that up exactly with the angle of the stem, and forget about the top tube angle. Your eye will be more drawn to any differences between the flats and your stem angle than the top tube angle. But aside from just aesthetics, I find if functionally better to have the drops angled a bit to more naturally lie where my wrists want to go, as opposed to having to cock my wrists to place them on the flats if they were parallel to the ground for example (or a horizontal top tube). Many did this even back in the day when ALL road bike top tubes were horizontal. I think it works just fine within the range of common stem angles between say -6 and -10 degrees. I'm still experimenting with getting things right on my C60, and I don't think I'm there yet, but getting close. I'll update my C60 thread with that when I think i've got it right.

I'll circle back here what a pic of what I did with the Campy mechanical and Tornova setup for a friend when I get a picture of it. It's fine, and looks great, but it is more of a flat transition from the tops to the hoods than say a true "classic" bar would be, with the ramp from the tops to the hoods.

I'll leave you a shot of the setup on my C59 since you referred to it earlier... note the flats on the drops are not in line with the top tube, but perfectly parralel with the stem angle. It's more comfortable (for me), that way too...
Image

And here's your setup again for reference... which is close to the above, but it does look like if you extended a straight line from the flats on your drops that the lever tips would be a little below that. There's so few bars out there these days that this guideline for mounting even works anymore, but for classic shapes with the flat drops, it still usually works pretty well.
Image
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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themidge
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by themidge

I searched up 3t Toronova on images and found some good examples of set up for those bars.
Just talking about bars and shifters here, not in relation to the stem or top tube or whatever.Image
^This one is closest to yours Wooskie, but the whole thing is rotated upwards a bit so the shifters are horizontal. Not necessarily a flat transition between bars and shifter, but it is in this case, more or less. IMO this one could do with the shifters being further up the bar (so they're parallel with the flat drop) and then the whole thing rotated down so the flat drops are closer to horizontal.
Image
^With shimano shifters, but pretty much bang on
Image
^Unfortunately there's no bar tape, but this is the best one I could find with Campagnolo levers. Notice how the flat parts of the shifter and drop are parallel, and also the transition from bar to shifter is pretty smooth, even with this 'traditional' handlebar.
Side by side, you can really tell how the Toronova has a much more 'modern' or 'compact' shape to the top curve (from tops to shifter area) than a more traditional bar like Calnago's.
I'm really nitpicking here, but it does look a lot better when everything is lined up and proportioned just right.

Wookski
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by Wookski

Yes I see, I’ll experiment with the hoods otherwise I’ll just swap to Rotundo LTD’s :beerchug:

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themidge
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by themidge

Good plan :thumbup: I'm sure someone famous has some very profound quote about the merits of experimentation, but I don't know it.

Wookski
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by Wookski

themidge wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:00 pm
Good plan :thumbup: I'm sure someone famous has some very profound quote about the merits of experimentation, but I don't know it.
Now we just need to do something about your sock situation!

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DOUG
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by DOUG

themidge wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:47 pm
I searched up 3t Toronova on images and found some good examples of set up for those bars.
Just talking about bars and shifters here, not in relation to the stem or top tube or whatever.Image
^This one is closest to yours Wooskie, but the whole thing is rotated upwards a bit so the shifters are horizontal. Not necessarily a flat transition between bars and shifter, but it is in this case, more or less. IMO this one could do with the shifters being further up the bar (so they're parallel with the flat drop) and then the whole thing rotated down so the flat drops are closer to horizontal.
I think Wooksi's are just fine, looks very similar poisitioning to my SRAM HRD shifters. My bars are rotated further forward than the image above which works for me (clearly the owner of the bike above has fine taste in bar tape though!)

Image

I played with it for quite a while and prefer the drops to be almost level with the top tube of the Supersix. A flatter transition would be nice but then the hoods wouldnt be horizontal and the drops wouldnt be as comfortable so its a bit of a compromise. Definitely not as bad as the Ergonova's I had on my last bike though, much prfer the round classic shape over compact.

Oh and nice bike @Wookski. After seeing all the incredible steel and Ti builds on here lately Im seriously tempted to go donw this path.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

themidge wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:47 pm
I searched up 3t Toronova on images and found some good examples of set up for those bars.
Just talking about bars and shifters here, not in relation to the stem or top tube or whatever.Image
^This one is closest to yours Wooskie, but the whole thing is rotated upwards a bit so the shifters are horizontal. Not necessarily a flat transition between bars and shifter, but it is in this case, more or less.
Ok, was at my buddie's last night for a bit and took a pic of the Tornova setup on his bike... pretty much identical to wookski's... and the pic above posted by @themidge. The bars are designed to be more of a flat transition to the hoods than the Rotundos, he wanted that. I prefer the ramp that my Dedas, and the Rotundos have. While the side profile of the Rotundos and my Dedas are very simlar, they are a bit different when looking at from above, in respect to where the bars start curving from the horizontal plane perpendicular to the stem out to the hoods, the Deda's curve starts a bit sooner and provides a bit more clearance for the wrists when you're in the drops, particularly if you're sprinting. Anyway, just gotta find what works best for you, and set it up accordingly... But didn't you find the Tornovas a pain in the ass to route mechnanical cables through? Perhpas the reason the lever tips aren't perfectly in line with a straight edge from the bottom of the drops. Or maybe raising them up even a little bit more would have increased the angle and taken away from the flat transition to the hoods given that they're the clamp is probalby at the tightest radius of the bend. I think that might have been it. Can't remember now. Except that in these pics, I completely bypassed the internal routing and just ran them externally...

The whole shape is just too "round" for my liking, even though they have a nice flat section in the drops... but Billy likes the flat transition to the hoods.
Image

I ran both cables to the front of the bars to avoid the tight bend routing out of the levers, but that also meant bypassing the internal routing through the bars as well...
Image

As for the 3T Rotundo LTD's, those are the bars I initially built my C59 with, along with the 3T Team stem, -6 degrees. I found this combo quite flexy, and finally switched to the Deda alloy bars that I prefer now and the Deda Zero 100 stem. It made a big difference in the "solidness" of the whole system.

Good luck deciding what works best for you.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


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