Italian Flamboyance - Wilier Ramato 6.4kg (New Pics on Pg 3)

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jimaizumi
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:48 am

by jimaizumi

@dlcrep, well, I've never used Enve bars as I stuck to my Schmolke's on my last two builds. Granted they are of the integrated type, they are plenty stiff but nothing that is too jarring. In a way, its a bit of an improvement over my Schmolke's granted I felt they were a bit too stiff.

@rossjm11 I guess gold cables were a bit of a toss up for me. I went this route for a bit more flair vs my previous C60 that was predominantly all black other than the Tricolore stripes that rand down the fork and frame. I still have black ferules so I can always switch them out.
:oops: THE PAST: 2005 C'dale R700, 2006 Spesh S-Works Tarmac Gerolsteiner, 2009 Pinarello Dogma FPX My Way, 2011 Time RXR VIP

:D THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato

:wink: THE FUTURE: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

by Weenie


Johnny Rad
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Location: Zion

by Johnny Rad

Beautiful new rig for you and Pippo Pozzato.

I'm envious of your bar stem combo - no creaking or rotating bar! I'd like to do that PLUS a seatpost saddle combo.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/05/11/wi ... sary-giro/

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jimaizumi
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by jimaizumi

@ Johnny Rad, thanks and like my previous bike, its definitely a blast to ride, catches the attention of riders around me.

While the bars are nice and stiff, it does have its downside.. heck, I might as well try to do a full rundown while I'm at it..

I've already given breakdown of weight in my initial post so lets keep this picture intensive..

Size M, looks lovely but still has its flaws. The entire frame is painted with a chrome silver base with a second layer of clear orange that gets youthat "copper" look. There is some clear "overspray" especially where seat stay meets the seat tube.
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The BB is thick, moved away from a 386evo back to a traditional 86.5. I especially like the clean cable guides with the screw to make it much easier of a task of routing the wires without the hassle and potentially incessant cursing that follows when you're sifting around for the wires and trying to get then aligned. I don't have a pic handy but the same falls true for the rear brake cable exit port where you also have a similar setup where a removable screw allows you to pull the entire aluminum casing out for easier access inside the top tube.
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Now, the frame isn't fully made and painted in Italy. Production seems to fall upon Taiwan whereas the frames are painted in Italy. So just to satiate those who like to guage quality through what usually can't be seen, here's the obligatory "inside" shot from the head and seat tube.
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The cover on the down tube is where it get a bit weird and something that I thought could used a bit more time at Wilier R&D dept. Firstly, its a little awkward on the visual front. You have a beautiful frame and then this ugly black box that sits right on down tube. Not only that, it limits the space for corporate "labeling", forcing the "Wilier" logo to sit lower with the chainring covering a portion of the "W". I forgot to take a shot of whats underneath the cover but its basically a integrated barrel adjuster exit/entry port for the rear derailleur. The cover comes in an assortment of styles which includes the electronic type as well which was later sent to me free of charge granted I had specified a Di2 specific cover upon ordering the frame. Like the Trek M9 and Pinarello F10, Wilier had every opportunity to replicate this design but didn't go the extra mile to help this double up as a junction box port. This forces the box up under the Alabarda bars which I'll get to in a bit.
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Now, all the "accessories..
Unlike the C60 that had a separate box with a foam liner where everything from the compression plug and top cap to small plastic thingamabob's, the wilier came in a shrinkwrapped package.. Cost cuts.. I get it. A few spacers, headset bearings, the compression plug and 2 wedge brackets (one for the bars and the other for the seatpost). Then the chainstay protector and a set of Wilier decals which my daughter quickly claimed, only to find them plastered all over her schoolbook. :mrgreen:
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The seatpost is as we all know, a Ritchey. At just 206gr, thats pretty light granted the saddle clamps are not carbon. The great thing about this saddle was that it uses one single thru-bolt that connects to an expander that allows you to adjust both the pivot as well as clamping down the saddle rails to secure the before/aft all in a single twist. The bad part is that Ritchey tries to pull the "buy more" marketing gimmick by providing saddle clamps for that of aluminum/titanium rails. If you had anything else, ie Fizik/Selle Italia/Selle San Macro, then you'd be out of luck and would have to buy a separate set. My LBS told me that Wilier had a different clamp for every major maker... Since I was running a Fizik K;1 with carbon rails (and that funky carbon wrap around the rails), I needed to buy an extra clamp. I then moved onto a SP-01 but then didn't bother to buy a Selle Italia specific clamp as I haven't faced any issues on fitting or slipping. So sorry Wilier, you don't get any more money from me, at least not today.
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Now, off to the Alabarda integrated stem/bar... I initially opted for a 42 x 110 as Wilier actually allows u to choose from their range of offerings that goes from a 40 x 90, all the way up to the Pozzato custom 42 x 133.5. This is one of the key reason's why I choose Wilier over Trek/Canyon as I really didn't want to be relegated to a "fixed" stem length. What arrived was a 42 x 100 which quickly had me asking for an exchange but that would have required me mailing the bars back to the EU, then off to Wilier and then back to me. That would have taken...errr, 1, 2...way too many months so I decided to suck it up and take the bars. After feeling slightly stretched on my C60 w/ 120mm MCFK w/ Schmolke TLO's, a shorter stem was in order. The largest difference here was that the Alabarda bars are compact with a mere reach of 68.5mm whereas the TLOs have a massive 95mm. So you do the math and my ultimate reach had shrank nearly 36mm. At 381.3gr, it was spot on with Wilier's advertised weight so no complaints there but speaking apples to apples, it is much heavier than Trek's M9 specific bars at just 290gr.
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Flip it over and you find the recessed area where the the Di2 junction box fits, as well as the carbon plate that uses 2 hex screws to keep the box from falling out. Ahem, Wilier, if you're listening to me, please utilize the barrel adjuster cover as a junction port please. By design, this isn't such a bad thing as it keeps the box and wires out of the wind. Who could ask for anything more? By practice, adjustment on the fly is possible but you have NO CLUE as to whether or not your Di2 unit is in that particular mode. Secondly, charging the Di2 via the junction box requires you to unscrew the cover in order to pull out the box. This part I could really do without... Luckily, Di2 requires less charging than the Etap!
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The frame says it accomodates up to 28mm tires.. well... with my LW's and 25mm Michelin Pro4's, all looks good
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Things start to get a bit too close for comfort with my SES 4.5's not so much with the width (27.2mm despite 25mm tires) but the height as you can see almost very little clearance btw the tire and the seat tube. At this point, I'd be a bit reluctant to use 28mm tires w/o having to really calculate as to how high the tire will sit.
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One thing I really love about this frame is the frontal profile. The EE Brake wire cradles are at an angle but the cables to need slightly greater slack, especially for the rear as the di2 junction box cover tends to restrict some cable flex.
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And there you have it... I'm sure I miss a bunch of details but this will have to do for now...
:oops: THE PAST: 2005 C'dale R700, 2006 Spesh S-Works Tarmac Gerolsteiner, 2009 Pinarello Dogma FPX My Way, 2011 Time RXR VIP

:D THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato

:wink: THE FUTURE: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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godzuki26
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:31 pm

by godzuki26

Your bike reminded me instantly of this Master Grade Gundam build. A silver base coat was applied followed by a transulucent orange coat. The gold cables also match the accents on this MG 1/100 scale Shinaju build. There are also touches of silver that match your bike. Pretty cool stuff. I love your bike. No other paint job like it.

Image
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rossjm11
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by rossjm11

jimaizumi wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:40 am

@rossjm11 I guess gold cables were a bit of a toss up for me. I went this route for a bit more flair vs my previous C60 that was predominantly all black other than the Tricolore stripes that rand down the fork and frame. I still have black ferules so I can always switch them out.
It is your bike, as long as you enjoy it, that is what matters! Love the review you wrote, I have been thinking about getting this frame but I think that box in the frame holds me back a bit.
BMC SLR01 2015
Redline Conquest Team

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jimaizumi
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by jimaizumi

@Godzuki26 Appreciate the feedback and and that mobile suit, DROOL... Are you trying to infer that I slap on a Republic of Zeon" decal and call it the Char custom? The gold cables really are a hit or miss. Sometimes I think gold. At other times I think silver or black...

@Rossjm11, I was a bit distracted by the cover as well but it all starts to blend in and hardly bothers me now.
:oops: THE PAST: 2005 C'dale R700, 2006 Spesh S-Works Tarmac Gerolsteiner, 2009 Pinarello Dogma FPX My Way, 2011 Time RXR VIP

:D THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato

:wink: THE FUTURE: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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godzuki26
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by godzuki26

I always knew that you were a NewType :thumbup: You must keep the gold. It looks classy just like the mobile suit.
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:arrow: Litespeed Ghisallo
:arrow: Scott Addict Singlespeed
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martinkartin
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:21 am

by martinkartin

Absolutely in love with those Ramato paints. I've had my eye on a Ramato Superleggera hanging in my LBS. There are days I wish someone just buys it already so it's off my conscience. Great build! :D
Factor O2 Disc Romain Bardet Limited Edition

Seedster
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm

by Seedster

Would you happen to know if that bar will accept a campagnolo v3 junction box?


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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

@jimaizumi: Really glad I circled back to this thread to read your detailed objective post about some of the details on this frame. I'm particularly interested in that BB cable guide. I'm presuming the routing for the front derailleur cable crosses underneath the rear derailleur routing in a supported "tunnel" kind of affair, otherwise the pressure from the cable on top as it wraps the BB would cause all kinds of unwanted friction. Is that correct? I there an actual tunnel underneath the top cable routing of that guide?
jimaizumi wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:42 am
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Also, it's interesting that Wilier chose this cable guide design (first of it's kind I've ever seen), because they're essentially saying "We want you to use the crossing derailleur cable routing method and in fact we're kind of insisting you do it that way which is why we made this cable guide".
And especially when you have the cable ports in the middle of the downtube, it is almost imperative you route the cables this way in order to avoid a whole bunch of s-bends and unavoidable cable housing rub on your frame. I am very surprised that Colnago, during their C64 launch, showed all of their bikes cabled the traditional way and quite frankly, it was horrible. If they're going to design the cable entry ports in the top center of the downtube then crossing mechanical cables in the downtube is really the only way to go in my opinion. If the ports were more to the sides, as they were in bikes past, then I think the choice is up to the builder and owner. But with the ports in the seemingly "new" position, at least for me, there is no choice anymore unless you really want to rub through the paint on the headtube of your nice new expensive frameset. Plus, it's functionally better as the bends are so much smoother with a larger radius curve.

I do share your thoughts on the awkwardness of that cover... they could have done a better job there probably.



Then theres the seatpost shape... which appears to be very similar to the new C64, and other frames out there. What do you think of the clamping mechanism? Looks like it would be more or less just a wedge that somehow tightens from the top? Can you describe it a bit more, please. Do you think it's good, or might it have the potential to loosen up during use? And can water get in through it's cover on top, potentially finding it's way down into the mechanism?
jimaizumi wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:42 am
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Thanks... great writeup, thanks for the details.
Cal
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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jimaizumi
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:48 am

by jimaizumi

@Cal, I'm so sorry for coming back to this thread long after your post. I must have missed it with all the newer threads forcing mine to the bottom and then eventually off the page.

I find it the least bit surprising that you'd take attention to the BB area given the meticulous efforts you took to protecting your C60. So, I actually went through the liberty of removing the guide just to get a few shots.

Unfortunately there isn't any tunnel but more of an "underpass" if that's what you were suggesting.

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Which brings me to suggest your method of having to cut out a deeper/wider groove to accomodate an inner lining granted its already attracted a fair share of dirt and grime. Luckily I'm on electronic shifting so the cover currently functions as exactly that, just a cover :mrgreen:

Here's what it looks like under the cover... come to think of it, its the first time I've even see this..You can see more a bit of an area where the spray residue missed the lower part of the BB shifter cable exit ports.

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In regards to the seatpost, the wedge design (for both the steerer tube as well as the seatpost) are somewhat effective. You're basically able to add necessary torque as it equally spaces the pressure which its being clamped to without having to suffer heart palpitations over whether or not you'll crush the carbon. The downside is that its a fairly heavy design and the weight is pretty significant though not as bad as my first generation Specialized Tarmac that used a traditional 27.2 seatpost.

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My LBS did the boo boo and didn't torque it enough, resulting in the post slipping further into the seat tube as I was riding it home. This left that nice little white scar as a memento of what NOT to do. The wedge design doesn't seem to allow any water into the seat tube but then again, I'm pretty squeamish about riding in the rain so I'll have to come back to you if and when I get stuck in a downpour. But as per my experience, the seat post is super stuck and is hard to adjust so as much as its annoying, it does add a bit of relief over what you may be hinting. As per the torque for both wedges, around 6nm and I'm golden. The saddle clamp says max 20nm :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
:oops: THE PAST: 2005 C'dale R700, 2006 Spesh S-Works Tarmac Gerolsteiner, 2009 Pinarello Dogma FPX My Way, 2011 Time RXR VIP

:D THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato

:wink: THE FUTURE: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

rexyi1990
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:05 pm

by rexyi1990

awesome!!! the paint job of the frame is pretty cool!

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

That thing looks great.

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