Cannondale Supersix 2008, goal: <7kg

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themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

And so the build hath commenced!
Glad I won't have this pile of bits in a corner any more:
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Cranks went on without a hitch, although I had some help from GCN's maintenance videos :D. I did a little mock up with all the parts not on the old bike:
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I don't think this build will look too bad, I just love the lines of this frame. Now about to strip down the crusty old B'twin Triban 540 :twisted: .
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

by Weenie


Peeza21
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm

by Peeza21

Looking good so far. What brake pad holder will you be using? Interested to know if I have any weight to be saved vs the OG zero gravity ones currently on my supersix
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themidge
Posts: 632
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Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

^ I'm using the standard 0G ones that came with the brakes for now, but clearance is very tight so I might have to get KCNC ones (26g for 4). There's a weight somewhere up-thread of the pad holders with new swisstop race pro black pads.

I stripped down the old B'twin yesterday afternoon, so I was able to weigh all the parts I needed from it.
starting with the smaller things, Elite custom race bottle cages:
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Garmin stem mount, might get a Tillquist one later:
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Madison shiny plastic bar ends:
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KMC x-10 ept chain, 105 links including quick-link:
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Shimano 105 5700 RD, pretty heavy, but under weight! :D:
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Shimano 105 5700 shifters, also very heavy:
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Bog standard Shimano SPD-sl pedals. I've had these since 2014 and they're still going strong!
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It seems I don't need the mounting bolt washer for my FD, so I saved a gram there:
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I've already posted the weights of these bits, but seeing as I got a more precise scale, here they are again.
Ritchey WCS neo-classic handlebars:
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Kalloy uno stem 100mm -7*:
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Selle Italia slr flow with vanox rails:
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Phew! That's all of them weighed and bolted on, only need to do cables and bar tape now and I'm finished :D.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Cables are done, pretty light I think
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73 - 13 = 60g for the outers and liners.
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Not much left of the gear cables, 26 - 5 = 21g.
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Lots left of the brake cables, not sure why, 52.5 - 29 = 23.5g.
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Tesa tape is light! 69.5 - 55 = 14.5g.
Last edited by themidge on Mon May 21, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

It's finished, for now. The build went mostly smoothly, especially the cranks which I was pleased about. Mostly photos incoming...
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This was my first time cabling a bike, and I think it went pretty well. Using iLinks really helped with getting the lengths just right, which is important with Ciamillos.
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The Ciamillo pad holders are quite wide/deep, so clearance is very tight. I will definitely get the wheels trued perfectly to make set-up easier, but perhaps some lower profile pad holders could be in order.
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You can see on the right-hand end of the cable there's an orange cable stop, except if you're familiar with iLinks you'll know that's not a cable stop. I had to get a little creative as I ran out of cable stops, it seems to be working fine.
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Tesa 51608 tape is weird stuff. It's kind of furry, and yet slightly abrasive, and definitely very thin. I think I like it, even the way that the bumpiness of the iLinks pokes through, as they fit just nicely into my grip. Wrapping it was an ordeal as it isn't particularly stretchy. I couldn't manage to get it to go round the shifter easily while covering everything so I did it in two goes: from end of drops to shifter, and then from shifter to stem.
I feel like I achieved a pretty clean cockpit too.
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I'm showing more seatpost (~13cm) than I thought I would be which is nice.
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I'm not American, but there's something about the 'handmade in the USA' decals that is quite satisfying. And the rest of the logos are not too aggressive either (although the massive CANNONDALE on the downtube is a bit LOUD!
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Gotta love Dura Ace hubs :D
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Sorry about the dirty gumwalls, they went on one muddy ride and haven't been the same since :? .
Last edited by themidge on Mon May 21, 2018 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

campagowlo
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:05 pm

by campagowlo

That's a lovely clean build midge. I agree with the clearance on the ciamillo brake pad holders, mine are the same. Gumwalls are a a pain to keep clean, I've gone back to black sidewalls as I think they look better over time. Tesa tape looks good. I will try that instead of deda traforato.

Peeza21
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm

by Peeza21

Looks good, well done! Any idea of weight as of now?

Glad I could contribute to a good build!
Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod 2012 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=148290

Cannondale Caad12 2017 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=143217&p=1389852#p1389852

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themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Thanks dudes. I rather like it too (funny that.. :wink: ).
I can't believe I forgot about the final weight! What am I on WW for if not to religiously weigh everything and post about it! The spreadsheet says it weighs 7.3165 kg, which standing on the bathroom scales confirmed, ± some air and grease. It's a little over what I was hoping for. I suppose inner cables are quite heavy which I hadn't really though about. Here's the full build:
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The JRC and Veloflyte headset stuff has been moved to the upgrade sheet for now:
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First ride tomorrow (on a Tuesday! oh the joys of exam leave with no more exams :D) which will be interesting as I haven't ever ridden a carbon frame before, though all the contact points with me and the road are the same so it will be interesting to so directly compare the ride with my old B'twin. I'll try to remember to do a longer-term review of the Tesa tape, I'm a little apprehensive about how it will survive washing and the sweet Scottish rain.
Last edited by themidge on Tue May 22, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

Peeza21
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm

by Peeza21

Really good job and exceptionally documented! WTH your planned mods, sub 7!will be achieved! Keep going!!
Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod 2012 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=148290

Cannondale Caad12 2017 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=143217&p=1389852#p1389852

User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Thanks, documenting the build has been almost as fun as riding it will be! I went on a short ride this morning just to make sure that everything was working, I have a squeaky jockey wheel and the iLinks rattle against each other, but those aren't something a bit of grease and some electrical tape can't fix. I need way more time on this bike to pass judgement on it fairly, but first impressions are that it is smoother than the B'twin, in a "I feel like my tyres are too soft" kind of way. The handling is very nice so far, very different in geometry to the B'twin, yet also feeling reassuringly similar and predictable. I can ride no-handed easily, there's no twitching.
Sub 7 is the goal for now, perhaps sub 6.8 with new pedals and lighter inner tubes. These dura ace wheels are on their last legs rim-wise, so I will need some new wheels for summer riding. Literally any carbon tubular wheelset under 40mm deep will get me easily under 6.8 when paired with the above upgrades.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Having now ridden the bike several times this last few days, I thought I’d do a little review on each of the more obscure parts of the build. If you can call any of it obscure that is, perhaps more like ‘not already done to death by countless others’.

Ciamillo negative-G brakes
Overall, I like them. If it weren’t for my out of true wheels, these would have been easy-peasy to set up, not sure why some people have/had problems. iLinks certainly made getting the right housing length easier, but if you’re more experienced at cabling than me then normal ones will be fine.
The brakes appear to be designed to be set up with the pads very close to the rim as otherwise the CAM will bottom out too soon. I can definitely feel this aspect of the design while braking. On my old brakes the mechanical power of the calliper was linear (or as good as linear) through the whole leaver stroke, whereas on the Ciamillos the CAM system means that the brake has more and more leverage (and therefore power) as you continue to pull the lever. This is quite nice while riding, as it allows you to feather the brakes gently at the beginning of the stroke where the system is not very powerful, and then increase the power for stopping by pulling more. I have not done any emergency stops or crazy steep descents yet, nor have I ridden in the wet, but I suspect that it will be harder to lock up the rear wheel than on the old brakes because of the superior modulation.
FWIW, I’m using swisstop race pro pads on pretty worn alloy dura ace c24 rims.

Tesa 51608 ‘bar’ tape
4ibanez provided a pretty good review earlier, but I though I’d do my own anyway. The tape is very thin, like so thin it’s just a furry coating for your bars. As such, it offers pretty much no cushioning to the hands, so I would definitely recommend everybody wears gloves when using this tape over normal distances, except perhaps on very smooth roads. It is quite nice to the touch, and I like the way it allows the cables underneath to make a ridge at the front of the tops of the bars for you to grip when climbing. Obviously the hoods themselves are not affected by bar tape, but beware of the more significant drop off onto the bar with such thin tape. This is the main reason I would always use gloves with this tape, the transition from bar to hood is in just the wrong place and in combination with the knobbly iLinks, digs into my hand if I don’t wear gloves. The drops felt a little thin at first, but I have got used to it quickly and find I quite like it.
I should add that trying to wrap the bars all in one go without leaving gaps or cutting off a strip to put over the shifter clamp is impossible because of the width of the tape, but it is easy to make touchups, especially around the shifter area.

Hylix carbon seatpost
I have mixed feelings about this post, mostly good though. I can’t really comment too empirically as both the frame and post are a different material and size to the old bike, but even with just 13cm showing, the post doesn’t seem to be particularly harsh or particularly plush, it’s just right in fact. The weight is very good for a £38 31.6mm post, and I haven’t even cut it down as far as I could. However, the post is truly maddening to install a saddle onto. The clamp is fine (secure) once tightened down, but balancing the saddle on the cradle while trying to do up two bolts at once, one which keeps falling off is quite annoying. Adjusting the saddle angle is also quite difficult, as you have to loosen one of the bolts just enough that it doesn’t fall off or start moving the yoke out of position on the rails, and then tighten the other one to change the angle without pushing anything out of alignment. Doing everything in small increments is the way to go.

Veloflex Master 25c tyres
IMO these don’t get enough love in general, and especially on this forum. They are very lightweight with my ones coming in at between 200 and 210 grams, but also surprisingly puncture-resistant. The ride is very nice, what with them being an ‘open tubular’ design. Even with normal butyl tubes, they are very supple, often leaving me wishing I had more pressure in them when on smooth roads. They do wear out fairly quickly, and start to puncture lots when they are on their last legs, so replace them before that happens! Other than durability, I have no idea why anyone would get Vittoria’s corsa G+ instead of these, especially as the Vittoria is more expensive.

Phew, that was quite a bit of writing, I will do another review on the brakes and tape once I have a few thousand km’s on them.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Quick update, I rode the bike in proper heavy Scottish rain for the first time yesterday, and can gladly say that the Ciamillo brakes worked really well (better than the old ones I used to have, which dipped in performance somewhat in the wet, dunno why, same tyres and wheels etc.) and the Tesa bar tape didn't disintegrate.
I made a thread a while back asking about rebuilding my Mavic Aksium rear rim onto a different hub because it's own one had broken, but I think it might not actually be broken at all. It had been making a horrible squeaking noise when I pedalled (definitely not from the chain) so I thought it was toast as did did the bike shop (in their experience, they didn't inspect it). However, that noise, that had been eliminated by the Dura Ace c24 wheels a friend lent me, came back! You can imagine my frustration, the same thing happening to two separate wheelsets! I thought, if it's happened twice to me in such a short space of time, this has to be common, so I did a bit of googling and found that somebody else had that noise and managed to get rid of it but taking out and cleaning and greasing their jockey wheels. I tried that and, of course, it worked! That taught me to take better care of my jockey wheels, especially ones with bushings, as they can squeak really badly when dry as well.
I haven't tested this on the old Mavics yet as they don't have a cassette on, and I'm not sure if I want to either after riding these 1400g DA wheels around, perhaps I'll use them as winter training wheels if I get fancy carbon ones as an upgrade for summer riding.
At the mo I'm saving up for the impending doom of the DA wheels (which are on their last legs with regards to the brake track), so there won't be any upgrades until after that.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

Peeza21
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm

by Peeza21

Really enjoy reading your reviews, very well written.

I’m considering Tesa tape as an option once I have my new fork and brakes setup as I’m also waiting for FSA SL headset bearings and will then see where I am at weight wise. I’d love to dip under 5kgs but I think that’s a bit of a squeeze.

What wheel upgrades are you considering?
Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod 2012 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=148290

Cannondale Caad12 2017 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=143217&p=1389852#p1389852

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themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

Thanks, I enjoy writing them :D.
I didn't think of headset bearings to save weight, the current ones are like 60g or something, so perhaps I could lose some there.
I'm not quite sure how I want to set myself up when it comes to wheels. I don't get many punctures, so I think I'd be fine with carbon tubs, which you can quite reliably get good deals on eBay for. I'd probably go for some old ten speed Zipps or Corimas as I don't plan on upgrading to 11 speed any time soon and I like the look of them. However, I don't want to ride carbon tubs in winter or the rain, so I think I'd need a set of alloy 'training wheels' too, probably Fulcrum or Shimano (with all black tyres, given the current state of my gumwalls after winter!) and ideally under 1500g.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

by Weenie


User avatar
themidge
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

by themidge

My back tyre is on it's last legs, but ProBikeKit only had the (Veloflex) master 25's in blue!
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Yuk!
So, I had to get a 23, which is fine seeing as the so called 25's only come up at 24mm on my rims.
Saved a few grams too:
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That drops the total (spreadsheet) bike weight to 73.045 centigrams :D.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )

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