Colnago C64 - Inside and Out

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NTX
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:19 pm

by NTX

Yes, the Shimano will work. No problem. It’s a standard 41mm pressfit interface. Just make sure you get the right BB for BB86.
Standard setback in Colnago posts is 15mm. I understand that they make the C64 posts in 25mm and 0mm offsets as well, and I would hope also available with your initial frame order, as opposed to having to purchase one in addition to the one that comes with the frame.
Thanks for the quick reply. The frame is supposed to come with a post, just not sure of the setback. If 15mm is the standard I'm thinking that's probably the most likely.

Your threads have been very helpful. I've essentialy bought my bike in pieces over the last week and really appreciate all the information. My first boxes showed up today, so it's starting to feel real. But still not sure when the frame will get here.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

Thanks. Just reread this and believe I was in error on the setback options. I don’t know why I wrote 25mm as one of the options. Because it’s 30mm, not 25mm. I’ll edit my original post with the correction.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Berzin1
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by Berzin1

A couple of non-thread related questions for you, Calnago if it's alright-

First of all, beautiful bike. I've always like Colnago. I remember one of the best rides I ever had was on a Colnago Titanio. They need to bring that one back.

1) I've heard that Colnago makes custome geometry frames, but an overseas retailer from I think is Belgium (He's well-known for having great prices) told me know, and that it would be too expensive anyways. If they put their frames together via lugs, I don't see why that would be an issue.

2) Do Colnagos make frames with a top tube that does NOT slope?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

As of the C64, they are all sloping frames now. Sloping frames became a thing for Colnago around 2005 or so (don’t quote me on the year) but you could still get all sizes in traditional sizes in 1cm increments as well. The sloping models were produced in even sizes only (52, 54, 56, etc). The sloping sizes’ geometry would correspond, fit and handling wise, to the traditional frame 4cm “bigger”. For instance if you wanted a 56s (sloping), that would correspond to a 60 Traditional (horizontal top tube). Then with the C59 they made it so that the traditional geometry was only available in the odd numbered sizes and the sloping only available in even numbered sizes. So, in my case for example, a 56s corresponds to a 60 Traditional, which would likely be perfect for me, but since I wanted a horizontal top tube, I got the 61 for my C59. For my C60 I have a 59 Traditional. In a C64 I would get a 56s. And so on.
As for custom geometry, yes it was always available through special order but I don’t know if that is an option with the C64. Oh, and by the way, to answer your other question... no, you can’t get the C64 in traditional geo. Part of the whole C64 thing, if you believe the marketing, is that the increase in vertical compliance is largely due to the sloping top tube and the resulting extra seatpost length allows more leeway for “tuning” in some compliance.
Custom geometry is/was certainly an aspect that separates Colnago from most, if not all, of the mainstream manufacturers. And it is the lugged design that allows this. I hear people talk about how the lugs are what gives Colnago it’s magical ride quality blah blah blah. Bollocks. I believe the fine tuning of a carbon frame can be better done with well designed and sometimes complicated layup schedules within a mold. That said, the lugs allow for very fine tuning of the geometry (which a few common molds do not) for each and every stock size as well. And this is no small thing when it comes to finding that Goldilocks like frame that both seems to “fit” as well as handle, well, like it was made just for you. Just look at the individual geometry numbers for each component of each size. Head tube angles, seat tube angles, top tube lengths, chainstay lengths, etc. You don’t see much in the way of the same chainstay length for example between sizes. Sure, making all the chainstays the same length makes it easy for manufacturers to use common molds between several, or even all, of their frames, but that doesn’t mean it’s best for the rider. Take the top tube lengths of the 3 sizes that I could, for example, work with for my personal setup. The top tube lengths are all within a 9mm window, from 577 to 580 to 586 in the case of the C60 for example (sizes 59T, 56s, 61T). Those are pretty small increments when compared to some manufacturers which might have a whopping 15mm or more between top tube lengths of two adjacent sizes. At the other extreme, when Giant first introduced the “compact” road frame to the peloton, there were initially 3 sizes... S/M/L... with fine tuning for fit done with various length and shapes of seatposts and stems. That didn’t work, at all, as frames from a handling perspective were often simply too big or too small even though one might be able get the 3 fit coordinates (saddle, pedals, bars/stem) just right.
So, that’s kind of the long answer to your question, but I’m pretty passionate when it comes to bicycle geometry from both the fit and handling aspects, as well as how it ultimately builds up into the finished bike, so from the aesthetic perspective as well.
But I still don’t know for sure if you are able to order a custom geometry in a C64. I would think “maybe”, but you’d have to check for certain on that. Actually that’s a good question and I will check myself at some point soon. The current size range, however, is still pretty extensive so I would expect the custom geometries to be pretty rare these days. What I do know is that a 56s would be my size, without question, in a C64. Versus the old days, when it was a laborious exercise in deciding which of maybe 4 sizes (all of which would work), you should choose.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Berzin1
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by Berzin1

Thanks for the detailed response, Calnago. Very interesting reading.

So if I'm considering a Colnago and would want custom geometry, who do you think I should contact here in the states-a bike shop that carries the brand or send an email to their US distributor?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Berzin1: ok, here's the deal with custom geo... Yes, it is possible but very expensive and certainly not being encouraged. Plus, with the seattube and seatcluster lug all being tied into one piece with the C64, it is not nearly as customizable as say, the C60 or models before it were. Can I ask what is it that you would want different from the geometry in the sizes they do offer?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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kgt
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by kgt

Unfortunately top Colnago frames gradually lose most of the things that made them stand out all these years. The lugs were great the moment they allowed for traditional geometries and custom sizes. Nowadays they are more ornament than function. Since C64 they don't even look as cool as they used to.

guyc
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by guyc

Well it’s an opinion.

Not one that I happen to share.

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kgt
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by kgt

That Colnago does no longer make traditional and custom geometry frames in practice is not "an opinion". It is a fact.

guyc
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by guyc

And this:

“Nowadays they are more ornament than function. Since C64 they don't even look as cool as they used to”

Is opinion.

You don’t like them. Fine. Plenty of other options.

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kgt
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by kgt

It is not opinion either. If lugs do not allow various and alternative geometries then their function is very limited.
BTW I like the C64. But I like a traditional geometry C60 much more.

Berzin1
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

by Berzin1

Calnago wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:34 pm
@Berzin1: ok, here's the deal with custom geo... Yes, it is possible but very expensive and certainly not being encouraged. Plus, with the seattube and seatcluster lug all being tied into one piece with the C64, it is not nearly as customizable as say, the C60 or models before it were. Can I ask what is it that you would want different from the geometry in the sizes they do offer?
1) No sloping top tube. I hate sloping top tubes.

2) A totaly different geometry than what is on offer nowadays with these high-end carbon frames-slacker seat tube angle (72.4) and head tube (73).

3) Actually, it was your thread on the C60 frame that got me wondering maybe I'd like one. That bike is really nice.

Now I know there are plenty of other carbon frames that I can do custom geo with no problem. But I've always liked the looks and paint chemes of Colnago.

But if it can't be done it can't be done.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Berzin1: you've kind of piqued my curiosity about your overall dimensions as to your requirement of a seat tube angle as slack as 72.4 degrees. And why is that specific seat tube angle so important to you, given an array of seatpost offsets you could choose? To be that specific in your seattube angle request, you must also be as specific in your seapost offset and saddle requirements I would guess. What seatpost offset are you thinking to go with that seattube angle? If you don't mind me asking, what is your saddle height and saddle setback (from the center of the BB), not to be confused with seatpost offset (the distance from the clamp center from the centerline of the seatpost iteslf)? And how about just some rough dimensions of your body, like inseam, and overall height just as a ballpark.
While you could get a custom geo C64 if you really wanted one, it would not be with a horizontal top tube. I would suspect you are a fairly tall fellow, am I right?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Berzin1
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

by Berzin1

Calnago wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 pm
@Berzin1: you've kind of piqued my curiosity about your overall dimensions as to your requirement of a seat tube angle as slack as 72.4 degrees. And why is that specific seat tube angle so important to you, given an array of seatpost offsets you could choose?
My naural position on the bike can best be described as low and laid back. If I ride next to a rider my height I will look like I'm sitting lower. After many years and much trial and error, I prefer a slacker seat angle because I can sit a bit further back without shifting the seat further back on the seapost, while also having the added benefit of having my seat sitting right in the middle of the rails, a happy medium if I would want to or need to move the saddle back or forward a bit.

Calnago wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 pm
To be that specific in your seattube angle request, you must also be as specific in your seapost offset and saddle requirements I would guess. What seatpost offset are you thinking to go with that seattube angle?
25mm offset, and the saddle, a Specialized Power (143 width) will fit right in the middle of the rails.

Calnago wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 pm
If you don't mind me asking, what is your saddle height and saddle setback (from the center of the BB), not to be confused with seatpost offset (the distance from the clamp center from the centerline of the seatpost iteslf)? And how about just some rough dimensions of your body, like inseam, and overall height just as a ballpark.
I have these meqasurements written down somewhere, I'll post them when I retrieve them.

Calnago wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 pm
While you could get a custom geo C64 if you really wanted one, it would not be with a horizontal top tube. I would suspect you are a fairly tall fellow, am I right?
Nope, lol. I'm 5'10". I just have a specific preference as to how I sit on the bike, and a slacker seat tube angle leaves me without fidgeting or pushing back while I sit.

Berzin1
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

by Berzin1

@Calnago-here are some measurements.

Height-5'9" in bare feet (I'm tall for my height, LOL!!!).

33cm inseam.

Bottom bracket center to tip of saddle-6cm.

BB center to top of seat tube-74cm.

I will be using a Specialized Power Arc Expert saddle (width-143mm) and a 3T Zero25 seatpost.

by Weenie


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