Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR

Who are you (no off-topic talk please)

Moderator: Moderator Team

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Hi, been a while since visiting this thread. Firstly, I got the Emonda specifically for foul weather riding, although the build shown is set up as sweet as possible and as close to my Colnagos as I could get so I could have some dry weather ride time to actually compare the Emonda with the Colnagos. I talked about that above somewhere. I was tired of trying to cut and chisel full fenders to work with my Colnagos (the only one I was able to do that with was the C50 and then only with 23mm tires and still not great clearance). But I've always wanted a nice road bike that handles like a road bike that I could fully deck out for rainy weather, which we get a lot of here, probably similar to the UK's weather during those months. I've tried a Cross bike etc. but it was not as fun to ride and "fun" is why I ride. The Emonda is perfect. So, the final setup for its intended use has the following changes from the pics to date... Nemesis Rims laced with DT Comp spokes to Campy Record 32 hole hubs, 3x both sides. 25mm Tubulars, right now Continental Comps, but when these are done it'll be Veloflex Arenbergs. Also, I put the Shimano 105 brakes that came with it back on instead of the SR brakes because of the clearance issues for full fenders and just the way the Shimano brakes function versus the campy brakes. The new Shimano brakes have really good clearance and activating them does not change that clearance, whereas the Campy skeleton brakes have less clearance to begin with and the arms come down on top of the fenders a little too much. Just not so good for this application. So, with the Shimano brakes I can get full fenders (mudguards) through there and still run 25mm tubulars. Awesome.

@Boardman: I did away with the Teflon bb guide that came with the bike in favor of the tubing that I replaced it with. It is not your normal light tubing which is almost more of a sheathing that you find in bike shops. This is quite thick in diameter with thick walls and the inner diameter is just big enough to allow a derailleur cable to glide through it silky smooth. It just fit better in the carbon grooves without the guide that came with the bike. And since it's for foul weather use, I was able to essentially completely protect the cables from the elements and crud getting thrown at the bottom bracket area from the front wheel.

@Iamnotwiggins: I get what you're saying, but whether it's Super Record, Athena, Dura Ace or 105, if you keep the stuff well maintained, it just lasts. I'm not a chemist or metals guy, but does carbon really not react too well to road salt? If anything, isn't aluminum a much more reactive substance when it comes to things like that? Grit is never good for any moving parts regardless, but that is just a function of winter riding. Either way, I've ridden SR through grimy winters and water filled streets for many years. I can't change the weather, but I don't have to dumb down my bikes for it.

And I find the new 2015 Boras are really as good or better than any carbon rim in the rain, better than the prior years Boras, but a lot depends on the pads etc. I've always used the Campy Carbon (now red) pads and find them very good. As for wear, people seem to think that carbon rims are so delicate and fragile sometimes. They are not. This stuff is hard! You can go through an aluminum rim in I would say much less time than it takes to wear out a carbon rim under the same conditions. Still, in wet weather, carbon rim braking is still something I'd rather avoid and since this is the bike I would take out on days that look wet, I prefer the braking I get from the Nemesis rims and normal campy pads, so they are the wheels of choice for most days on this bike.

I should update this thread with pics of the changes. I'll try to do that sometime over the next couple of weeks. But I really do love the simplicity of this frame and the ease of working on it. And it's handling when set up identically to my Colnagos is pretty close to the same. Kudos to Trek.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


newtocarbon
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:34 am

by newtocarbon

Hi, did you/anyone have any issues with the BB90 Campagnolo conversion? Have a new Domane 5 series frame and looking to do the same and bought the 407383 kit - the bearings aren't seating far enough in / properly. Seems as though I need to thin the ID of the BB shell a bit to make this work and not a fan of this (and Trek's instructions seem to indicate they should drop right in). Thanks in advance for any assistance.

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I'd say PM me and I'll walk you through it. All fits together perfectly on my Emonda but I do remember not being quite sure about the whole setup until I took detailed measurements on everything and "dry fit" it. If you're using the plastic shield that needs to be seated first. Then the spacers on each side. Then the ultratorque cranks should slide right in. There is the wavy washer (supplied in the trek kit versus the one that comes with campy BB cups). There are two seal "seats" black that must be glued in with the appropriate primer and loctite. I used a press to keep the seal seats seated while it cured for 24 hours. Do not "thin" the inside shell. Try to fit it all using a thin film of grease on the inside faces of the shell to make sure everything does indeed fit together properly. They don't quite "drop right in" but as long as you make sure you're putting each half of the crank in perfectly straight with light "wiggles" here and there to help it along it should all seat nicely. Once you're satisfied that it does all fit, breathe easy, take out the cranks and glue the outside seal seats in. Then reassemble. It does not use the C-clip as Trek has controlled the tolerances very well and so they don't need to account for variances between different manufacturers BB shell widths or facing variances. I am assuming that the Domane 5 is using Treks BB90 as well which should be identical to the Emonda.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

newtocarbon
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:34 am

by newtocarbon

Thank you C! I did get your PM but cannot reply.

Prior to receiving this I checked BB bearing ODs online and the Campy and Shimano Hollowtech are both 37MM and since the Shimano are press-fit I figured it'd be a bit more than just dropping these in. Light wiggles weren't working but bit of strategic tapping with a small rubber mallet and all fitting. I was going to just set in those seat seals in but like your headset press solution. I've obviously never used a sleeve with Ultra-torque and also was not thinking I'd need as does look as though will introduce a bit of friction and using Token hybrid ceramic, with which I've had a lot of luck.

Thanks again.

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Great. If you need anything else, just post here and I'll respond over PM if you need it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
GorrGrimWolf
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:26 pm

by GorrGrimWolf

Calnago, thank you for the thread. Some great info here which cannot be found elsewhere.

I am just about to purchase a 56 Emonda SL framset. I am little bit worried about the saddle height (my 56 would be on the absolute limit with 175 seatmast cap), but it should be allright. But what about the BB? No creaking? Creaks driving me crazy and and BB90 worries me a little...

Otherwise your is pretty much perfect. I am planning to build mine with Chorus 2015, Bora 50, Veloflex Roubaix and with black glossy frame. So hopefully it would look as good as yours.

User avatar
FIJIGabe
Posts: 2003
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

I don't know about Campag BB's interface with the BB90 system, but I can tell you that with Shimano and SRAM cranks (BB90 and GXP press-fit bearings), I've never had a creak from the BB area.

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I've never had a problem with creaking either, knock on wood. Let's see how it's faring after this winter season in the rain. BB90 is not pressfit by the way. It's a slipfit. I made some very careful measurements on the BB90 shell before I installed everything just to check things out. It was very round and well finished to spec. I was impressed. And so far so good. The Campagnolo kit for the BB90 does not use the retaining clip on the drive side. I guess Trek is confident enough in the shell tolerances that the lateral movement is limited, and in testing that out it seems to be the case. I did a lot of testing on this, pushing the crank laterally from the non drive side to see how much play could be had with a complete compression of the wavy washer. It was less than or no more than any of my Campy equipped Colnagos (with a faced 68mm shell) and the retaining clip installed. The clip is to accommodate different frames where tolerances aren't so great and may be large enough to allow too much lateral movement of the crank. Ideally, there would be zero lateral movement of the crank, but the wavy washer (whether from Campy or the one which comes with the Trek/Campy adaptor kit), seems to be a good compromise. The Shimano system uses a mechanical preload so if it is set perfectly, there should be pretty much zero lateral movement. I actually prefer a mechanical preload, like Shimano's, but there are design tradeoffs and advantages to both systems. Campy's Overtorque system uses a mechanical preload as well I believe, but I have not had occasion to use or install one yet. In any case... I'm very pleased with the Trek Emonda SL. It's the perfect frame for what I got it for. I guess I should post some pics of it in it's current use state... winter weather... full fendered... different wheels than above etc. I finally have a super nice winter bike that handles like my summer road bikes, which this one is as well if I were to remove the fenders.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I figured I'd better present this before it actually stops raining here. This week is glorious, but we're just coming out of what is officially the "wettest winter on record" according to the weather forecasters (versus last winter which was possibly the driest on record. So, quick update on this bike... had it since October, 2014. Got it primarily to be used as a rain bike. Have been totally impressed with it so far. Coming out of the rainy season, this bike is really a treat to have.

Finally, a fully fendered (mudguarded) proper "road bike"...

This bike has been perfect all winter long... the fender install is super clean, super solid, with zero rattling even over bumps etc. It has totally met all my expectations that I was hoping it would for a winter bike, or a best summer bike for that matter.

Tires: Continental Competition Tubulars 25mm; Rims: Ambrosio Nemesis 32 hole; Hubs: Campy Record; Spokes: DT Swiss Comp (2.0/1.8/2.0); Nipples: DT Swiss Brass; Lacing: 3x both sides
Image

Brakes: This is interesting as it started out as full Campy build (bike was stripped of the Shimano 105 group it came with and loaded up with Campy). However... the new Shimano brakes have much better clearance than Campy Skeletons, and when operating, the shimano arms don't close in on the fender. And the profile of the Planet Bike fenders, underneath the shimano brakes, underneath the profile of the Trek Fork, all fits perfectly. So, for the rain bike, the 105 brakes were the way to go, and they're black, so at least the color is right. They work perfectly with the Campy levers. Might not work so well the other way around however (Shimano levers with Campy calipers) since there would be no quick release available for a quick wheel removal. But this way, I have double the quick release, at the Campy levers and at the Shimano Caliper.
Image


Installation: Basically threw away all the mounting hardware that came with the fenders. Cut out the metal pieces that attach to the front brake bolt, and removed the rear rubber mud flap. From there I repositioned the front so that enough would come out the front to prevent road grime from being sprayed out in front and up (which inevitably ends up in your face), and made sure that the rear of the fender was low enough so that with a little flap addition there would be no road spray and grime hitting my feet. While a good long rear flap is great, and necessary around here, for group rides or whomever you might be riding with, it's the cold spray from the front tire that is often the most miserable part of any ride rain. Once your feet are cold and freezing, it isn't much fun anymore.
So, check out this install. Done with no nuts, screws, etc. Just some zip ties, electrical tape, some brass spoke washers, a few pop rivets and a couple of added polycarbonate reflective mudflaps...

I definitely wanted standard mount brakes for the rain bike, to give my the anchors I needed for my zip tie installation...
Image

Image

Image

To anchor the fender stays to the rear stays and front fork I first wrapped the areas I was attaching them to with about 6 turns of electrical tape. This provides all the bite needed to really make these things solid so they won't move. They are anchored down with two zip ties each. I use two just in case one were to ever break, it would still stay put. I've done a number of these installs now and not one has ever broken or come loose the whole season. They're amazingly secure...
Image

Image

The rear flap is riveted on, is super reflective and stiff enough to stay close to the ground even descending at 45mph or whatever...
Image

Image


And the front flap, also riveted on as an extension to the front flap, ends only about 4cm from the ground and so no water, I mean zero, enters the bottom of my shoes from road spray of the front wheel. Such a treat...
Image

So there you have it... my ultimate wet weather road bike... and a couple pics of what's necessary for the install...
Image

Image

I've done this type of install before on my C50 but I had to do a lot of cutting of the fenders, and even then the clearance was so tight that I could only run 23's, and barely at that. Any road debris at all would tend to want to get caught between tire and fender at some point, so the setup with the Trek is so nice as there are zero cutouts in the fender so everything stays really clean. There's no "half stops" where you stop the fender at the rear of the fork because it wont go through, or you cut the rear fender into two parts to get around the rear bridge.

As an example, here's the fender I used to have on the C50, but eventually gave up on using it as a rain bike because of the inadequate clearance for fenders...
Image

And the C50 in it's old winter attire...
Image
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ


enrike
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:46 am

by enrike

very good looking

LionelB
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

Nice! How is the feet protection from water on the road with the front fender ?

jdc5r
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:05 am

by jdc5r

i like!

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

LionelB wrote:Nice! How is the feet protection from water on the road with the front fender ?

The ONLY water that hits me on this bike is from the clouds. With the added flap and the fact that I've rotated the fender a bit more reward than it would otherwise be, water from the front wheel does not even hit the bottom of my shoes which can often be a source of entry at the cleat holes. And same thing while turning, the angle of the spray simply gets cut off before it can reach any part of me.
I specifically got this bike for a winter bike and it has been perfect. We just had our wettest winter on record. I wanted all out road geometry with full fenders, something that's really hard to get. I tried full fenders on my C50 but clearance issues only allowed for a 23mm tire and it was sketchy at best, with any little bit of road crud getting squeezed through not enough clearance, and sometimes jamming. I've tried cross bikes, but then you have to deal with cross bike handling.

The only thing is, that the SL Emonda does not come in an H1 geometry, and I now think maybe I could have made the H1 geometry work with a couple centimeters of spacers. As it is, the H2 geometry is fine, but it's headtube is a bit long, even for me, but not by much. Still, I really have not found a single fault or design issue with this frame. It handles as well as my Colnagos and therefore I'm not one of the winter rider group that by February is complaining not only of the weather, but can't wait to get off the "beater" winter bike and back on to their dry weather bikes.

I ruled out the SLR frame from the start on this build because of the direct mount brakes it comes with. As I knew I wanted full fenders on this bike, and already had my method of mounting down pat, I really need the center brake bolt to wrap my supportive zip ties around.

It's a great frame and I finally have a winter rain bike that I don't feel I'm compromising anything as far as ride quality goes.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


Mr.Gib
Posts: 3889
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Super work. The extensions are pure class. Something some of the dumb f**ks on some of our winter group rides could learn from you.

One thing I wonder about is why you went with a zip ties instead of using threaded brake nuts front and rear? Was it just so you could snug the fender tight up against the fork crowns?

I am on the Island, so not far from you. And while we get less then half the rain you usually get :mrgreen: fenders are a must from November to April due to condensation in the morning or what is left from the occasional overnight rains. I really wanted to do exactly what you did, but I found that I would rather put up with cross bike handling than have to become the MacGyver of fender installation. Believe me I have dremmeled my share of fenders, etc.

The other issue was discs which made a ton of sense for the winter trainer. I was eating rims with rim brakes. I ended up going with a disc Boone. While it does wallow around compared to a road bike, I do love the built in fender mounts and room for 30 mm plus tires and fenders.

Enjoy your ride - a first class winter set up.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Post Reply