Third Time's a Charm: Litespeed T3

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oldturd
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by oldturd

Wait, I might have missed this- why are you going from the XXX to the HEDs?

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by RyanH

@oldturd

I've wanted a good set of alloy clinchers for awhile and Tom Anhalt's glowing review of the Ardennes made me pull the trigger on them again. I had them a year or two ago and wasn't impressed but I think they were the narrower version and for whatever reason, I couldn't get the braking to perform to expectations. Despite all of that, I bought these and I'm really enamored with them. Fantastic braking and handling is on par with my XXX tubs wheelset. So, not a replacement, just another option in the wheel arsenal.
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RyanH
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by RyanH

This came in lighter than expected. I also have another, even lighter fork on the way but I doubt I'll use it.

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I also got a few 12s Edco cassettes for Campy and Shimano freehubs:

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MrCurrieinahurry
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by MrCurrieinahurry

Interested to see how the edcos run

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RyanH
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by RyanH

It's interesting that every time a new carbon bike enters the frame and is potentially a contender to become the A bike, all it takes is a long ride to remind me why I prefer Ti. The big difference with a Ti frame is that when you're hitting bumps and broken pavement, the impact is muted at your feet. The last two long rides on the Crux, I was in discomfort near the end as my feet hurt so bad despite the Crux having 28mm Turbo Cottons vs the T3 on 25mm Turbo Cottons.

I'll have to see how the geo changes work out. If it calms the bike down on high speed descents then I'll probably pick up a LS Ultimate in the same size at the next sale to have two, nearly identical bikes, one with mechanical shifting and the other with electronic. If I can't get it calm like the others I've had in the past few weeks then I'll go custom for the A bike (the T1sl was calmer but it was the wrong size).
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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Haha. No wonder the older riders around here with deep pockets ride a Moots.

So you mentioned the new fork is taller. How much taller is the length (axle to crown)? And I assume it also has less offset to help increase the trail? If you mount wider (hence taller) tires it'll increase the trail further. Looking forward to seeing the results.

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by RyanH

The Moots fork is 370 axle to crown vs 367 for Enve. The cane Creek AER headset is 12mm stack vs Extralite which is 10mm, so I should get an extra 5mm total. Both forks are 43mm rake.
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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

5mm isn’t a great deal of change. That’s like going from 25mm to 30mm tires. I recently saw a WolfTooth eccentric headset that slackens the head tube angle. Have you looked into it? Or perhaps just get a new bike instead of spending so much money on these experiments.


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RyanH
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@pdlpsher1

You're making the assumption that a new frame is not an experiment in itself. I'm up to about 30 bikes that have come and gone now and only 3 of them I'd want to capture their downhill mannerism and only two of them I would want to replicate how they feel when pedaling. So, a $400 experiment with fork and headset seems like a more prudent usage of money if I'm happy about other aspects of the bike.

Not to undermine that comment but I was looking at the Emonda DM fork today and was trying to find the axle to crown on that (would you happen to know?). If it's 375 then that may be an even better option (it's sub 300g too) but first I need to see where I get with the Moots fork. I think this change should change the HTA by 0.3*. It's a small change but it may be enough to just calm the bike down just enough to take a little of the edge off.
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1llum4
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by 1llum4

If your head tube angle calculation is correct then that would put you at a 61mm trail figure with 25mm tire. That should put you straight in the middle the original T3 trail and the trail of your crux with 30mm tires.

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by RyanH

1llum4 wrote:If your head tube angle calculation is correct then that would put you at a 61mm trail figure with 25mm tire. That should put you straight in the middle the original T3 trail and the trail of your crux with 30mm tires.
What're you using to get that as the trail calculator I've been using shows 58mm trail got 73.3* HTA with a 43mm fork on 28mm tires.
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1llum4
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by 1llum4

Derp my bad. I thought your T3 had a 73.0 original HTA so I was calculating with a 72.7 HTA.

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by RyanH

I need to rig something up to get a more precise measurement but I'm pretty sure 73.3 is right. Mine is a size small though and it should be 72.5 which is confusing how it is where it is. I'm hoping it's a measurement issue and not the HTA being off but with things being hand made, it's probably more likely it was designed by accident to be 73* (someone wasn't paying attention that day and thought they were building a medium?) since the 0.3* difference is explained by the 5mm shorter stack height of the Extralite lower.
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DHG01
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by DHG01

RyanH wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:38 pm


Not to undermine that comment but I was looking at the Emonda DM fork today and was trying to find the axle to crown on that (would you happen to know?). If it's 375 then that may be an even better option (it's sub 300g too) but first I need to see where I get with the Moots fork. I think this change should change the HTA by 0.3*. It's a small change but it may be enough to just calm the bike down just enough to take a little of the edge off.
I ve got the Emonda SLR 8 fork that I will be using shortly for a build. As you suggest, it measures 375. It weighed 310 uncut; but I weighed in a somewhat sloppy manner.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Per my own build notes the Domane DM fork's ATC is 380mm. I got that figure after going into a Trek dealer and looked up the part on their dealer-specific parts web page. The high ATC is for tire clearance. The fork will easily clear a 31mm tire (measured width) with 3mm clerance to the brakes' on each side. The weight I measured is 350g. uncut. BUT the fork's rake is 48mm which would decrease the trail as compared to the Moot's 43mm.

If I was given a chance to build another custom bike I would pick the 53mm fork and an even slacker HT angle to bring the trail number back up. This is because I ride a small sized frame and I have toe overlap issue. I prefer a rearward cleat position and that exacerbates the toe overlap issue. And the fat 32mm tires that I prefer makes it even worse!

Right now my fork is 48mm and HT angle is 72, for a calculated trail of 61mm (using 28mm tires I think).

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