Third Time's a Charm: Litespeed T3

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RyanH
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by RyanH

So, I bought a set of Hed Ardennes RA Black and finally got tires for it today.

Weight without tape:

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I proceeded to set them up with Turbo Cottons, rolled down the street and then my rear tire blew off...

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Attempt #2 and this happened:

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Just fail all around. I really wish these rims came in tubular. Dealing with latex tubes and supposedly super short lifespan of Turbo Cotton makes me wonder why I'm even trying. I should've just bought a set of Ardennes tubular rims and laced them to Carbon Ti. They would've been lighter too...

Anyways, swapped PM out for 53/39 version at a penalty of 90g and wheelset was roughly a 350g penalty over the Bontrager XXX which puts her at around 6.6kg. I have a Moots fork coming in a few days which will make this bike quite the hodge podge of different brands (Moots, Cannondale, Bontrager, Specialized).

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

What pressure were you running? Latex + clincher + high pressure = bad combination. And perhaps the rim tape is to blame. Hed rim tapes are quite a bit thicker than most. A thinner rim tape works better with latex tubes.

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RyanH
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by RyanH

65/70 for 27.8mm measured. That's not the issue, the issue is that latex tubes like to get stuck under the bead of the tire so you have to be very careful for that not to happen. I just don't have great confidence that is the case.
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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Many people think tube installation is the issue but it's actually not. Latex has the tendency to find the smallest crevice or tire/bead/rim imperfection and creep/deform, causing catastrophic failure when nothing has actually penetrated the tire. Higher pressure and lightweight/thin latex tubes will exacerbate the issue. I have had catastrophic failures with light/thin latex tubes but later switched to Vittoria tubes which are around 78g., and experienced no issues until something penetrated the tire causing a puncture. I can't tell which brand of latex you're using. It appears it's too thin to be Vittoria. The latest Vittoria tube also uses an alloy, black colored valve stem to save weight. Yours is silver colored. I suggest giving Vittoria a try. You can run as high as 75psi which is the pressure I ran on a tandem. At that pressure there are no catastrophic failures.

Tubular tires with latex tubes can be run at super high pressures without issues because a tubular tire is perfectly round (thus allowing the latex tube to expand uniformly in all directions like a balloon) and without any internal surface imperfections.

Latex has such a low hysteresis that a thicker latex tube has no measurable increase in rolling resistance. The only downside is more weight but it's totally worth it given the risks associated with thinner latex tubes. And unlike butyl you won't find any differences in ride quality between thin and thick latex tubes.

I have since moved on to tubeless tires. But if I have to run latex tubes I would only use Vittoria.

RyanH
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by RyanH

The first tire was Vittoria latex tube. I rode down the street, took a photo and then heard a loud pop and the entire tire was off the rim on one side.

Second one with the hole near the valve was Challenge which was 88g. Me putting pressure on the valve was probably the cause of that. I put enough pressure on the valve while inflating for it to be half way up and the tube probably creeped into the valve hole and pinched itself.

I'd be more interested in tips on how to get the latex tube fully inside the tire bead before I start inflating cause right now it's just a game of hoping that it doesn't creep up between the bead and wheel hook.
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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

A lot of talc/ babypowder helps for me, works with normal tubes too

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

little bit of pressure before the install always helps a little.
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chuingbeans
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by chuingbeans

spdntrxi wrote:little bit of pressure before the install always helps a little.
+1. Allows you to ensure the tube is tucked under the tyre and sitting in the rim bed before getting the second tyre bead on the rim. Then work your way around the tyre one final time to check the tube is in the tyre and not poking out under a bead before fully inflating.

Michelin and Vittoria tubes have provided no issues for me with Veloflex, Vittoria and Panaracer tyres.

romanmoser
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by romanmoser

never had any issue except a few pinch flats with latex inner tubes
yeah they always seems to want to get away from the rim, while mouting the second side of the tire
i once ronde for 500m before noticing a bit was left off

but nothing undoable especially if you glue yours tubs ( wich isn't difficult but different and still take concentration )

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Juanmoretime
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by Juanmoretime

I have used and continue to use latex tubes. Did have a few times I pinched it and I did say I. I was in a hurry. Slow, carefully installation brinngs happiness every time. Did find Michelin green tubes flated the easiest. Challange and Vittoria tubes are the best!

Denavelo
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by Denavelo

spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:52 pm
little bit of pressure before the install always helps a little.
This is key! I was running latex inside of Compass tires and I went through a few of them and almost gave up. Then I realized that putting a little pressure in them helped seal them inside the tires and also helped with pulling the tire on the rim. I gave a bunch of Vittoria tubes to a friend new to cycling and he hasn't gotten a single flat. I installed them with so much baby powder and inflated the tube a bit before install.
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Attermann
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by Attermann

do you all install tubes without pressure? allways allways just enough pressure so it keeps the shape of the tube, and then mount everything, and then push in the valve before you pump, then you are allways good to goo.

RyanH
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by RyanH

I ordered baby powder and installed four tubes over the past few days on two wheelsets and got the tubes fully situated inside the tire. So, looks like my technique was off before and I think I have it down now. Now, what to do with the 8 veloflex Corsa TLR tires I just got in
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Juanmoretime
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by Juanmoretime

[quote=RyanH post_id=1719720 time=1638508798 user_id=52680]
I ordered baby powder and installed four tubes over the past few days on two wheelsets and got the tubes fully situated inside the tire. So, looks like my technique was off before and I think I have it down now. Now, what to do with the 8 veloflex Corsa TLR tires I just got in
[/quote]

For sale forum or buy more bikes to put them on your choice. You probabaly like the second choice, the significant other probably likes the first. :twisted:

dcj10
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by dcj10

Juanmoretime wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:39 am
Did find Michelin green tubes flated the easiest.
I had the same experience with Michelin green tubes, Juan.

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