Lightest Mechanical Disk Brake

[thegolfather]

What is the lightest Mechanical disk brake for a XC MTB? The reason is I am combining one hydraulic and mechanical so I will always be able to stop in case the hydraulic brake fails. Just like in a car there is always a mechanical system as a back up. Thank you

[LeDuke]

What is the lightest Mechanical disk brake for a XC MTB? The reason is I am combining one hydraulic and mechanical so I will always be able to stop in case the hydraulic brake fails. Just like in a car there is always a mechanical system as a back up. Thank you

Wouldn’t you still have another brake if one of them failed?

The only two relatively mainstream mechanical disc brakes I can think of:

Paul Klamper
Avid BB7

The odds of a hydraulic brake straight up failing are so incredibly low that this is kind of absurd, to be honest. If you’re actually riding off-road, the power and modulation of two hydraulic brakes would provide far greater control (safety) than what is gained by reducing the incredibly small risk of hydraulic failure.


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[thegolfather]

I agree the chances are very small, but I have a friend whos son crashed communting to school and was in the ICU for a couple of days and now is in a cast. I agree that having both fail simulatneously would be rare. But for someone who has no bicyle skills or maintenance skills would it be safer to have mechanical brakes? I have a bike with mechanical brakes that has been with the family parked to the side for years and when we decide to use it I just put air in the tires and it is ready to go. I also have carbon framed bike with hydraulic brakes, the performance is night and day but again this bike sees the local bike shop at least once a year and that is my bike which I check regularly. This is the kind of situation that I am talking about lack of knowledge or maintenace. Don't you think It would be safer to have one hydraulic and one cable.

[js]

At this point, I feel like the odds of a brake cable failing are about the same as a hydraulic system failing, so I'm also struggling to see how you gain anything with this one-of-each set-up. Yet it costs in terms of complexity, performance and feel.

Having said that, I run TRP Spyke brakes on my winter commuter, because I live somewhere that goes to -40c (before windchill), so a mechanical system is more sensible in that weather. Even at that though, the routing of most modern bikes expects hydraulic (even fat bikes), so if I ride in wet / cold weather, where it's below freezing but the traffic can still make roads wet, my rear brake often gets water seeping into the cable housing, which then freezes the brake cable.

If you're not dealing with -40c, or anything below -15c, then I certainly think you'd be safer with two hydraulic brakes, or at the very least exactly as safe as having two mismatched brakes.

[thegolfather]

Thank you for that reply...

[satanas]

The biggest problem here would IMHO be the very different feel between the two brakes - different lever shapes, power, modulation, etc.

There's nothing wrong with mechanical discs, but there will be more lost energy due to friction with cables than with hydraulics - and more so with convoluted internal routing. I'd possibly choose to use cables if going on a very long, remote trip in say India or Africa, but otherwise not so much. Decent mechanical brakes like Paul Klampers or Growtac Equals are not cheap options either.

[thegolfather]

Thank you

[froze]

Mechanical disk brakes are easier to modulate than Hydro brakes; hydro will activate extremely fast, and if you have a panic situation you could be flying over the handlebars before you have a chance to prevent it.

As you said, mechanical disks are easier to maintain and cheaper to maintain, less tools needed, no need to use a wedge tool to keep the caliper open when you fix a flat. The only drawback to mechanical is that they are not self-adjusting. I had my TRP Spyre C Dual piston brakes mechanicals for about 2,000 miles, I have yet to adjust them. Hydros are not superior to mechanicals in stopping power, stopping power of both has everything to do with your tires adhesion to the pavement, or surface, it has nothing to do with one being one type vs another type.

Some will give me flak about what I said, but watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsqtxkw ... ohoohoblin

A very important video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLt2xeV ... ginaldScot

Another thing I saw on a test was that more expensive rotors do not make any difference, and metallic pads don't grip the rotors as well as resin. The single best upgrade you can do to any type of disk brake is going with 180mm front rotor, and just the standard 160 in the rear, that means whatever brake system you buy make sure you can at some point switch to a 180 front rotor. My bike came from the factory with 180 on the front.

[thegolfather]

I have to agree to some of this why make things complicated when they work just fine eg: no dipstick engines

[froze]

I have to agree to some of this why make things complicated when they work just fine eg: no dipstick engines

No dipstick engines just baffle my mind, you have to rely on an idiot light to tell you instead, what if the idiot light fails to work, and a person just driving along thinking all is well when the engine suddenly seizes? My 10 Tundra 5.7 has a no dipstick transmission, because it's a sealed unit, great, what happens if a seal starts to leak and I can't check the fluid level?

Why timing belts? so we could save about 1.5% of a gallon of fuel per mile, because of CALF standards. Except there's one small problem, the belt replacement will cost you at least $950 to as much as $2,500, even at $950 you will only save $164 over the course of 80,000 miles (average belt replacement is 80k) in fuel to pay for that belt, so you are in reality paying a lot more for your fuel.

The internet says the average cost for the belt is $400 to $1,000, hmm, not where I live, the cheapest price on my old 09 Acura TL was $950, for my Lexus SC430 it will be $2,100, and people I talked to over the years have all said at least $900. Even if the internet is correct you're still losing money. I gave the TL to my grandson and got a Acura RDX instead, it has a steel chain.

But all the electronics they put into cars are bringing down the reliability as well, which in turn costs us money to maintain. Do we need our refrigerator to be hooked up to the internet? Some internet providers can't even keep up with all the demand a home now has for internet use.

[thegolfather]

I have to agree to some of this why make things complicated when they work just fine eg: no dipstick engines

No dipstick engines just baffle my mind, you have to rely on an idiot light to tell you instead, what if the idiot light fails to work, and a person just driving along thinking all is well when the engine suddenly seizes? My 10 Tundra 5.7 has a no dipstick transmission, because it's a sealed unit, great, what happens if a seal starts to leak and I can't check the fluid level?

Why timing belts? so we could save about 1.5% of a gallon of fuel per mile, because of CALF standards. Except there's one small problem, the belt replacement will cost you at least $950 to as much as $2,500, even at $950 you will only save $164 over the course of 80,000 miles (average belt replacement is 80k) in fuel to pay for that belt, so you are in reality paying a lot more for your fuel.

The internet says the average cost for the belt is $400 to $1,000, hmm, not where I live, the cheapest price on my old 09 Acura TL was $950, for my Lexus SC430 it will be $2,100, and people I talked to over the years have all said at least $900. Even if the internet is correct you're still losing money. I gave the TL to my grandson and got a Acura RDX instead, it has a steel chain.

But all the electronics they put into cars are bringing down the reliability as well, which in turn costs us money to maintain. Do we need our refrigerator to be hooked up to the internet? Some internet providers can't even keep up with all the demand a home now has for internet use.

add flyby wire accelerator pedals, and now wireless shifting for bicycles will that win a person races because it shifts faster and more precise?

[thegolfather]

https://www.bikegeardatabase.com/gear/growtac-equal

[froze]

I have to agree to some of this why make things complicated when they work just fine eg: no dipstick engines

No dipstick engines just baffle my mind, you have to rely on an idiot light to tell you instead, what if the idiot light fails to work, and a person just driving along thinking all is well when the engine suddenly seizes? My 10 Tundra 5.7 has a no dipstick transmission, because it's a sealed unit, great, what happens if a seal starts to leak and I can't check the fluid level?

Why timing belts? so we could save about 1.5% of a gallon of fuel per mile, because of CALF standards. Except there's one small problem, the belt replacement will cost you at least $950 to as much as $2,500, even at $950 you will only save $164 over the course of 80,000 miles (average belt replacement is 80k) in fuel to pay for that belt, so you are in reality paying a lot more for your fuel.

The internet says the average cost for the belt is $400 to $1,000, hmm, not where I live, the cheapest price on my old 09 Acura TL was $950, for my Lexus SC430 it will be $2,100, and people I talked to over the years have all said at least $900. Even if the internet is correct you're still losing money. I gave the TL to my grandson and got a Acura RDX instead, it has a steel chain.

But all the electronics they put into cars are bringing down the reliability as well, which in turn costs us money to maintain. Do we need our refrigerator to be hooked up to the internet? Some internet providers can't even keep up with all the demand a home now has for internet use.

add flyby wire accelerator pedals, and now wireless shifting for bicycles will that win a person races because it shifts faster and more precise?

I personally don't like the feel of wired accelerator pedals or electric steering. They don't respond as intuitively as cable accelerators or hydro steering, and you don't have that connected-to-the-road feel.

We have to keep in mind that anything new will be used by pro racers, whether they like the stuff or not, they are paid to say that they like it and that in turn gets the general public all hot and bothered to go out and buy it, it's marketing based on false dreams and hopes to make us buy.

This is the same reason Pro cyclists have ad stickers all over them and their bikes, we see that stuff and go "gee, if they're using that stuff we should be too" except most of the crap they advertise they're not using, they have mislabeled stuff with labels showing it was a different product; tires and saddles are famous for doing this, but they found forks like that as well, but nothing is said about this sort of lying and cheating to the public, just don't cheat to win a race...

[6fu]

Mechanical disk brakes are easier to modulate than Hydro brakes; hydro will activate extremely fast, and if you have a panic situation you could be flying over the handlebars before you have a chance to prevent it.

As you said, mechanical disks are easier to maintain and cheaper to maintain, less tools needed, no need to use a wedge tool to keep the caliper open when you fix a flat. The only drawback to mechanical is that they are not self-adjusting. I had my TRP Spyre C Dual piston brakes mechanicals for about 2,000 miles, I have yet to adjust them. Hydros are not superior to mechanicals in stopping power, stopping power of both has everything to do with your tires adhesion to the pavement, or surface, it has nothing to do with one being one type vs another type.

Some will give me flak about what I said, but watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsqtxkw ... ohoohoblin

A very important video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLt2xeV ... ginaldScot

Another thing I saw on a test was that more expensive rotors do not make any difference, and metallic pads don't grip the rotors as well as resin. The single best upgrade you can do to any type of disk brake is going with 180mm front rotor, and just the standard 160 in the rear, that means whatever brake system you buy make sure you can at some point switch to a 180 front rotor. My bike came from the factory with 180 on the front.

Just wrong on basically every point. Had trp spyre with good pads and non compressible brake housing and they are crap compared to even more basic hydro brakes.

Modulation on hydro brakes is better. You also have much more stopping power and can use the brakes with one finger giving you much more secure grip on hadlebars. I've never used a wedge when removing a wheel, why would you do that? Just don't squeeze the lever without a wheel in.

More expensive rotors are usually lighter, sometimes more durable. I've tossed cheap shimano rotors before due to uneveness of the braking surface which gave vibrations. No issue with icetech rotors.

Metallic pads have some advantages. Stopping power is more than sufficient with hydro brakes, they work in the wet just as well as in the dry, are more resistant to fading and last much longer than organics. Organic do have more initial bite.

[nickf]

I have been on hydro mtb brakes for 20 years or so. Not once have I had a failure or even needed to bleed the system, unless it was just maintenance. I use Growtac Equal mechanical calipers on my gravel bike. They are the best mechanical disc brake system I have ever used, excellent power, modulation, and weight. I wouldn't use them on the MTB though unless my trails were dead flat. Hydro mtb brakes just have more power and great modulation, there is no comparison.