Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Giant anthem vs kona hei hei
Moderator: Moderator Team
Hellow.I am searching for a new xc bike.I liked these two fs aluminium bikes.Giant has more steep angles but lacks dropper post.The weight is 13.65kg(light for aluminium fs) despite the heavy wheelset.Kona is more slacker and has better components(13.9kg weight with dropper).Both have lifetime warranty!In this price category i can choose a light ht but i m afraid of their trail capabilities.I m doing xc and light trail riding although. Has enyone ride these?Other choises?
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
I can't speak much to the Kona, but I can say that the Anthem is a good bike that can be more versatile than it looks at first glance.
I owned an Anthem Advanced Pro, but my partner races on a Liv Pique (alloy model - so very similar to the Anthem you're looking at). We upgraded the wheels on her bike and the weight for her small was similar to my XL (carbon) when all was said and done. Right around the 25lbs mark.
For the first few years, I ran my anthem with a straight post, but used a PNW Dropper (27.2 and 110mm travel) for the final year. I appreciated the extra manouverability of the bike with the dropper and 110mm felt like plenty for that set-up. We also swapped in a Wolf Tooth Angle-set for my partner's bike, which slackens the head angle 1 deg. That change only cost $100, with no weight penalty and makes a real difference, without doing anything crazy to your BB height.
Oh, and the Maestro suspension is wonderful. Notably more active than single-pivot, flex-link options that you find on most bikes now - which means you can set it up to delivery snappy pedalling, without compromising small bump compliance.
I owned an Anthem Advanced Pro, but my partner races on a Liv Pique (alloy model - so very similar to the Anthem you're looking at). We upgraded the wheels on her bike and the weight for her small was similar to my XL (carbon) when all was said and done. Right around the 25lbs mark.
For the first few years, I ran my anthem with a straight post, but used a PNW Dropper (27.2 and 110mm travel) for the final year. I appreciated the extra manouverability of the bike with the dropper and 110mm felt like plenty for that set-up. We also swapped in a Wolf Tooth Angle-set for my partner's bike, which slackens the head angle 1 deg. That change only cost $100, with no weight penalty and makes a real difference, without doing anything crazy to your BB height.
Oh, and the Maestro suspension is wonderful. Notably more active than single-pivot, flex-link options that you find on most bikes now - which means you can set it up to delivery snappy pedalling, without compromising small bump compliance.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Personally, I'd select them based on suspension kinamatics over any components. Components can be upgraded easily. Suspension linkage layout cannot be changed.
Assume the alu version to have similar linkage design to the carbon one,
Anthem
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2017 ... -2018.html
Hei Hei
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2020 ... -2020.html
Quick glance between the two, Anthem rely more on remote lockout than Hei Hei. Hei Hei has more anti-squat (close to 100%) so, it'd bob less from acceleration without the need of lockout. Anthem, however, should be plusher when unlocked.
Orbea Oiz
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2019 ... -2019.html
Orbea Oiz has even more anti-squat. But it go toward excessive value. Which will result in stiff rear suspension when applying power, especially in very high gear (like 32x10).
So... selection breakdown:
If you like to use remote lockout. Anthem is the better option. It should be plushest unlocked. And you can make it more efficient by locking it. Fezzari Signal Peak also fit this use case, but lighter (because carbon) and not really more expensive.
If you don't want to use remote lockout, and want suspension to feel good in all condition: Hei Hei. Anti squat value just above 100% should have minimal bob and still remain active on rough trail.
If you don't want to use remote lockout, and want suspension to feel remarkably stiff and efficient: Oiz. That much anti-squat can bite you back on technical climb when rear wheel hit some edge and stall out rather than absorb the hit to go over it. But on smoother trail or road, the feeling of rear end that stiffen up as you apply power can be addicting. If you are into that kind of feel, "Intense 951 XC" is another option. It's essentially Intense Sniper that sell for lower price at CostCo.
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018 ... -2019.html
Assume the alu version to have similar linkage design to the carbon one,
Anthem
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2017 ... -2018.html
Hei Hei
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2020 ... -2020.html
Quick glance between the two, Anthem rely more on remote lockout than Hei Hei. Hei Hei has more anti-squat (close to 100%) so, it'd bob less from acceleration without the need of lockout. Anthem, however, should be plusher when unlocked.
Orbea Oiz
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2019 ... -2019.html
Orbea Oiz has even more anti-squat. But it go toward excessive value. Which will result in stiff rear suspension when applying power, especially in very high gear (like 32x10).
So... selection breakdown:
If you like to use remote lockout. Anthem is the better option. It should be plushest unlocked. And you can make it more efficient by locking it. Fezzari Signal Peak also fit this use case, but lighter (because carbon) and not really more expensive.
If you don't want to use remote lockout, and want suspension to feel good in all condition: Hei Hei. Anti squat value just above 100% should have minimal bob and still remain active on rough trail.
If you don't want to use remote lockout, and want suspension to feel remarkably stiff and efficient: Oiz. That much anti-squat can bite you back on technical climb when rear wheel hit some edge and stall out rather than absorb the hit to go over it. But on smoother trail or road, the feeling of rear end that stiffen up as you apply power can be addicting. If you are into that kind of feel, "Intense 951 XC" is another option. It's essentially Intense Sniper that sell for lower price at CostCo.
https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018 ... -2019.html
I have Kona Hei Hei DL AL from 2016 they are fantastic !!!
They weight only 12.3 KG with dropper post that i intalled KS. I am thinking to change handlebar to carbon and deriviation to sram XG (11 speed) and will shed 300G more to sub 12 KG !
I think that the Anthem today look a like the Hei Hei that redesign in 2016 and didnt change much since (only the carbon was change), At the 2016 it was Full XT and 34 FOX 120 so they downgrade the new hei hei components (too bad).
It make no sence to buy XC trail over 13KG its not fun to ride, Thats the reason that i didnt change those bike since they are so fun for all around and light. to buy new bike around 12KG need to spend at least 5500$, too much for me.
They weight only 12.3 KG with dropper post that i intalled KS. I am thinking to change handlebar to carbon and deriviation to sram XG (11 speed) and will shed 300G more to sub 12 KG !
I think that the Anthem today look a like the Hei Hei that redesign in 2016 and didnt change much since (only the carbon was change), At the 2016 it was Full XT and 34 FOX 120 so they downgrade the new hei hei components (too bad).
It make no sence to buy XC trail over 13KG its not fun to ride, Thats the reason that i didnt change those bike since they are so fun for all around and light. to buy new bike around 12KG need to spend at least 5500$, too much for me.
Hellow.The final desision is between orbea oiz h30 and cannondale scalpel.I tested a ht scott scale carbon to understand how a ht behaves.It was pretty fast climbing a fireroad and was descending fairly good in smooth trails.Although in loose and steep trails i hadnt so much confidence.So i m confused.Maybee the cannondale will be better in technical terrain due to more slack headangle.The cannondale scalpel ht as stock bike has better components and needs only a dropper for a first upgrade..Orbea oiz h30 is almost 5-6lbs heavier as stock.If i buy it i will upgrade instantly a the stock wheelset and change the seatpost with a dropper(saving 1lbs).In the future the brakes and the drivetrain will be also changed with better components.So carbon ht or aluminium fs?I m a roadie mainly but i race some xc races and do some trailriding for fun.The current mtb is and old 33lbs 26in aluminium fs
Confused...
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Confused...
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Up to you..
HT is a weapon those who can and comfortably handle it.
I don't want to handle such uncomfortable weapon. So I'm lazily ride FS.
But then, between this pair. The slacker head tube angle help the Scalpel on technical descend vs Oiz.
If you can handle Scalpel, it looks to be the faster one than aluminum Oiz FS. But it can be tiring on a long technical ride. Which, not everyone like to do it anyway.
HT Scalpel will handle tame trail and most XC course just fine.
HT is a weapon those who can and comfortably handle it.
I don't want to handle such uncomfortable weapon. So I'm lazily ride FS.
But then, between this pair. The slacker head tube angle help the Scalpel on technical descend vs Oiz.
If you can handle Scalpel, it looks to be the faster one than aluminum Oiz FS. But it can be tiring on a long technical ride. Which, not everyone like to do it anyway.
HT Scalpel will handle tame trail and most XC course just fine.
I dont think that the ht will be very hard for me.Mostly it is the lack of confidence that i had in my ride on technical trails is the weak point.I m a good climber but my descenting capabilities are average.The main question is how big will be the difference between a 23lbs carbon ht and a 29lbs aluminium fs in the uphill?I have to choose between the speed of scalpel and the allaround character of oiz...By the way has anyone tried these bikes?
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
I dont think that the ht will be very hard for me.Mostly it is the lack of confidence that i had in my ride on technical trails.I m a good climber but my descenting capabilities are average.The main question is how big will be the difference between a 23lbs carbon ht and a 29lbs aluminium fs in the uphill?I have to choose between the speed of scalpel and the allaround character of oiz...By the way has anyone tried these bikes?![Image]()
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Στάλθηκε από το SM-A127F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
I haven't tried my friend's Oiz before he sold it.
Regarding the climbing difference, here is a ballpark estimation,
===
1) Weight diff:
Assume rider weight 140 lbs and carry 2 lbs of water and other tools.
So the system weight would be 165 lbs vs 171 lbs.
The 6 lbs lighter bike would climb 3% faster due to less gravity force. Like 5 mph vs 5.15 mph climb speed.
2) Suspension diff:
This depend on the suspension design and terrain. For suspension design, Oiz is really efficient already so the loss is minimal.
If it's a technical climb with bumps and edges, the full suspension will get a bit of advantage.
If it's a smooth climb then no advantage to the FS.
3) Position diff:
When the road tilt, more weight'll go toward rear wheel and less weight go to front wheel.
With FS, the rear will sag more and fork will extend a bit from neutral position. This exacerbate position change from tilted gradient as you sit more toward rear wheel and away from bottom bracket.
With HT, the fork still rise a bit but at least the rear won't sag more. So, the position will change less from tilted ground.
It's hard to tell how much does this effect your power production.
IMO, if you are comfortable handle HT for hours. Then go with Scalpel HT. It won't climb worse. And dropper post can band hide the descending deficit.
Regarding the climbing difference, here is a ballpark estimation,
===
1) Weight diff:
Assume rider weight 140 lbs and carry 2 lbs of water and other tools.
So the system weight would be 165 lbs vs 171 lbs.
The 6 lbs lighter bike would climb 3% faster due to less gravity force. Like 5 mph vs 5.15 mph climb speed.
2) Suspension diff:
This depend on the suspension design and terrain. For suspension design, Oiz is really efficient already so the loss is minimal.
If it's a technical climb with bumps and edges, the full suspension will get a bit of advantage.
If it's a smooth climb then no advantage to the FS.
3) Position diff:
When the road tilt, more weight'll go toward rear wheel and less weight go to front wheel.
With FS, the rear will sag more and fork will extend a bit from neutral position. This exacerbate position change from tilted gradient as you sit more toward rear wheel and away from bottom bracket.
With HT, the fork still rise a bit but at least the rear won't sag more. So, the position will change less from tilted ground.
It's hard to tell how much does this effect your power production.
IMO, if you are comfortable handle HT for hours. Then go with Scalpel HT. It won't climb worse. And dropper post can band hide the descending deficit.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
