Is there a consensus "best value" xc fork?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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rhender
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:49 pm

by rhender

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:17 pm
Pour heavy money into suspension result in noticeably better ride vs put money into drivetrain or brakes.
I'd rather ride top end Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Manitou R7 Pro with Deore drive train than ride Shimano XTR/ Sram AXS with budget fork.


in context of XC to light trail,
Fox: the Grip damper in Performance level actually perform better than Fit4 in Performance Elite or Factory. So, sweet spot is there. Fox 34 StepCast Performance or Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox: no budget sweetspot. Ultimate level is the way to go if budget allow. But the Select level is also 'fine'. Actually, Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate isn't that expensive if you can find a right deal.
Manitou: the budget R7 Expert is much worse than R7 Pro for just a bit cost saving. Go all the way to R7 Pro. Never get R7 Expert.

Regarding features:
1) Very serious rider will look for remote lockout compatible damper for sprint start and finish. Personally, I ditch fork lockout remote on modern downcountry/XC bike.
Modern bike has slacker HTA, longer top tube, shorter stem. All of that result in less weight on front wheel than traditional (old) geometry so when I stand up and sprint, the fork bob noticebly less now. I no longer need fork lockout for (my weak) sprint.

2) Adjustability.
Sid Ultimate come with Raceday charger damper which only have rebound adjustment. Compression level is set for average male body weight (~160lbs) from the factory and cannot be changed. If you are around the bell curve 145-180lbs the compression will be set just right. Lighter may find it harsh. Heavier may find it lack compression damping.
Fox Fit4 damper is harsh for very light riders even with compression set to full soft. Fox Grip damper ride smoother/softer than Fit4.
Manitou have good range of adjustability and perform well for most.

3) Serviceability.
Fox require more propreitary tools to do any services.
Rockshox allow everything to be done at home with common tools. But service parts often go out of stock (seal, O ring, crush washer etc.)
Manitou service is really easy because the design is really simple and straight forward (but weight more). But then since it's not Fox or Rockshox. Many local bike shop and local suspension tuner don't know how to work on Manitou. So, learn to work on your own fork is preferred over asking bike shop do it.

Take damper service for example:
Fox: While you can do lower leg service. If you want to service the damper, it is better to send it to Fox to do it.
Rockshox: Remove lower casting first. Then remove damper cartridge from the right leg. Then bleed the damper in a similar way to bleeding (Sram) hydraulic brake. And then put them back. Replace crush washer everytime you remove lower leg (casting).
Manitou: remove top parts of right fork leg (adjuster knobs and compression unit of the damper). Pour old oil out. Pour new oil in, adjust oil level to spec then screw top part of damper back on. The fork lower doesn't even have to be removed to do this and even if you do, there is no single time use O ring or crush washer.

More on how they ride here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169663

But in the end, short list of fork for consideration is
Fox 34 StepCast Performance (2022 model or later. You can tell them apart by casting arch design. 2022 has curved arch. 2021 or older has squarer arch.), Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox Sid Ultimate, Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate.
Manitou R7 Pro.
Do you have any opinions on travel options for a newbie? Looking at the used market for the forks you listed and leaning toward Rockshox for availability and serviceability. But it looks like most of the Ultimates that I'm coming across are for 100mm. This make sense as the more race-oriented option but just curious if you would steer a rider new to offroad toward something more.

For the record, I don't have any intention of riding anything even resembling gnarly. Just dipping my toes in and want to try my hand at some not-too-technical local races.

kervelo
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

The amount of travel has an effect on the fork length. All bike frames have been designed for some specific fork length (or length range): using something different will change the bike geometry and the bike behaviour.

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Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

yeah, 100 or 120mm if the frame has modern xc geometry. Some are designed for 120mm only but most are either 100 or 120. The geometry will change as more travel fork is taller.

On an old bike you may also see 80mm but let skip that option.

100mm option is totally fine for xc. As in riding race course and natural trail that do not include very deep drop. 1 feet drop is totally cool even with no help from rider. 2 feet drop is okay if you use your body help absorb the bump. More than that and you need really good technique or longer fork.
120mm travel is luxury, not mandatory for xc. Some serious racers still prefer 100mm fork for weight, shorter length and firmer ride.

If you need to get old year RS Ultimate level fork (older than 2020, not the current model), then consider the new Select level as suggested by others too. With the new Sid, it's important to have some warranty. New Sid can have bushing play issue which need a warranty claim. So, new Select with warranty is preferred over old used Ultimate which their warranty may expired.

rhender
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:49 pm

by rhender

Refreshing this thread rather than start a new one because I got some good advice here previously.

I'm still working on putting together this first xc bike build and wanted to get some opinions on wheelset. I'm looking at purchasing the HUNT XC Race Wide wheels. Seen some pretty good reviews and less than $500 for 1500g seems like a great value. My only concern is that they are only 24mm internal width and it seems like everyone is going wider (I guess 30mm is increasingly common). So I guess I'm wondering, if I am trying to keep things budget-friendly, is it going to be better to go wider even if that means several hundred grams heavier?

saverin
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:02 pm

by saverin

I ran a set of XC race wide's for a couple years, and while I predominantly ran 2.25 - 2.4in tires, I didn't have any issues with the narrower section rims. Rode them fairly hard on some fairly technical descents and they remained perfectly true.

Don't get me wrong - these are still a light-duty wheelset and I wouldn't choose to run them if I had a more burly set available for harder rides, but for an XC wheelset I don't think you can go wrong for the money.

rhender
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:49 pm

by rhender

saverin wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:27 pm
I ran a set of XC race wide's for a couple years, and while I predominantly ran 2.25 - 2.4in tires, I didn't have any issues with the narrower section rims. Rode them fairly hard on some fairly technical descents and they remained perfectly true.

Don't get me wrong - these are still a light-duty wheelset and I wouldn't choose to run them if I had a more burly set available for harder rides, but for an XC wheelset I don't think you can go wrong for the money.
That's encouraging thank you. I won't be attempting anything burly so think this is a good match for me.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Depend on how do you pair it with the tire and air strategy:

Conventional way:
- Moderate tire pressure, get grip from tread pattern -> narrow rim is absolutely fine

Nino Schurter's way:
- Use semi-slick tire. But get good grip from running 2.4" tire at very very low pressure. -> this will require wide rim to keep tire stable at low pressure.


There are pros and cons of doing it both way.
The Schurter's way is faster on dry course.
But the conventional way is safer for your rim when you impact something. And it doesn't require wide rim.

greatstewie
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:11 pm

by greatstewie

is there a light stem for 35mm bar that does not breake the bank?

pushpush
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:10 am

by pushpush

I run a sid ultimate sl and a stepcast32 performance. I am 170-175lbs. IME the SID runs circles around the SC32 in every way other than adjustability. But when it performs as well as it does, who cares about extra adjustments?

This reminds me, I'm due for some shock service.

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