Is there a consensus "best value" xc fork?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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rhender
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:49 pm

by rhender

Hi folks. I have really only ever ridden road, but I think I want to give offroad riding a try and am going to build up a modest xc frame for some riding and possibly not-too-technical racing next year.

Because I'm planning to put my own bike together, I feel like I have a little more freedom than what comes stock on most entry level bikes. Problem is that I am completely uninitiated in the mtb world and it looks like there are about 10 different variations of FOX or Rockshox forks around the same price points. Additionally, I know for road, there is a point where the upgrade makes a huge difference and then things begin to taper off quickly with diminishing returns (105 for example). This is sort of where I'd like to be. I was wondering if there is a general recommendation for low-travel forks for xc racing that hit this target. What features or brands should I look for?

Thanks!

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Pour heavy money into suspension result in noticeably better ride vs put money into drivetrain or brakes.
I'd rather ride top end Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Manitou R7 Pro with Deore drive train than ride Shimano XTR/ Sram AXS with budget fork.


in context of XC to light trail,
Fox: the Grip damper in Performance level actually perform better than Fit4 in Performance Elite or Factory. So, sweet spot is there. Fox 34 StepCast Performance or Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox: no budget sweetspot. Ultimate level is the way to go if budget allow. But the Select level is also 'fine'. Actually, Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate isn't that expensive if you can find a right deal.
Manitou: the budget R7 Expert is much worse than R7 Pro for just a bit cost saving. Go all the way to R7 Pro. Never get R7 Expert.

Regarding features:
1) Very serious rider will look for remote lockout compatible damper for sprint start and finish. Personally, I ditch fork lockout remote on modern downcountry/XC bike.
Modern bike has slacker HTA, longer top tube, shorter stem. All of that result in less weight on front wheel than traditional (old) geometry so when I stand up and sprint, the fork bob noticebly less now. I no longer need fork lockout for (my weak) sprint.

2) Adjustability.
Sid Ultimate come with Raceday charger damper which only have rebound adjustment. Compression level is set for average male body weight (~160lbs) from the factory and cannot be changed. If you are around the bell curve 145-180lbs the compression will be set just right. Lighter may find it harsh. Heavier may find it lack compression damping.
Fox Fit4 damper is harsh for very light riders even with compression set to full soft. Fox Grip damper ride smoother/softer than Fit4.
Manitou have good range of adjustability and perform well for most.

3) Serviceability.
Fox require more propreitary tools to do any services.
Rockshox allow everything to be done at home with common tools. But service parts often go out of stock (seal, O ring, crush washer etc.)
Manitou service is really easy because the design is really simple and straight forward (but weight more). But then since it's not Fox or Rockshox. Many local bike shop and local suspension tuner don't know how to work on Manitou. So, learn to work on your own fork is preferred over asking bike shop do it.

Take damper service for example:
Fox: While you can do lower leg service. If you want to service the damper, it is better to send it to Fox to do it.
Rockshox: Remove lower casting first. Then remove damper cartridge from the right leg. Then bleed the damper in a similar way to bleeding (Sram) hydraulic brake. And then put them back. Replace crush washer everytime you remove lower leg (casting).
Manitou: remove top parts of right fork leg (adjuster knobs and compression unit of the damper). Pour old oil out. Pour new oil in, adjust oil level to spec then screw top part of damper back on. The fork lower doesn't even have to be removed to do this and even if you do, there is no single time use O ring or crush washer.

More on how they ride here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169663

But in the end, short list of fork for consideration is
Fox 34 StepCast Performance (2022 model or later. You can tell them apart by casting arch design. 2022 has curved arch. 2021 or older has squarer arch.), Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox Sid Ultimate, Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate.
Manitou R7 Pro.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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js
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Canada

by js

I don't have much more to add to this subject, other than to say that the Fox Grip damper is a great performer and very easy to use on the trail, with or without a remote - I'd actually prefer it without, as you get the advantage of infinite adjusting of compression damping through the range from open to locked out.

You might even consider a standard 34 Performance (or Rhythm), if the savings are there. I got a new 34 for $500 CAD last year, brand new from CRC - that type of $$$ savings might allow you to put more into wheels for example, to balance the weight and net an increase in performance (as weight matters more on wheels & you net a bit more steering precision too).

What I really wanted to say was thank you to Hexsense. I read a number of your previous posts when I was looking for a fork (or other components) and just like this one, they were well considered, well written and very informative.

Lots of people have lots of posts, but it's posts with value like this that keep me coming back to this forum / community.

Much appreciated.

bokiscout
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:05 pm

by bokiscout

SID SL with more enttry level dumper.

Easy to service, 1400g weight, can be found for arount 350 euro new.

Reba is similar price, but heavy.
SID SL Ultimate:
- more machined uper body
- lighter weight dumper mostly becouse of lower amout of fluid inside, but low amount of fluid means faster overheat.

Fox is nice but expensive and proprietery tools are required.

Other brands are harder to find spares.

Stay with SID SL Select / Select+

spartacus
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

bokiscout wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:58 pm
SID SL with more enttry level dumper.

Easy to service, 1400g weight, can be found for arount 350 euro new.

Reba is similar price, but heavy.
SID SL Ultimate:
- more machined uper body
- lighter weight dumper mostly becouse of lower amout of fluid inside, but low amount of fluid means faster overheat.

Fox is nice but expensive and proprietery tools are required.

Other brands are harder to find spares.

Stay with SID SL Select / Select+
Where can you find a sid SL for that price?

kervelo
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

The best price I have seen recently is around 500€ for a new SL Select.

spartacus
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

I'm trying to buy a 120 asap so if anyone has a link...

kervelo
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

spartacus wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:23 pm
I'm trying to buy a 120 asap so if anyone has a link...
Here is one:
https://www.bike-components.de/de/RockS ... el-p76136/

spartacus
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

kervelo wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:31 pm
spartacus wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:23 pm
I'm trying to buy a 120 asap so if anyone has a link...
Here is one:
https://www.bike-components.de/de/RockS ... el-p76136/
Ah I got excited then saw no ship to USA. The best I've seen so far is lordgun which is out of stock, but maybe there are other German sites that will ship.


rhender
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:49 pm

by rhender

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:17 pm
Pour heavy money into suspension result in noticeably better ride vs put money into drivetrain or brakes.
I'd rather ride top end Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Manitou R7 Pro with Deore drive train than ride Shimano XTR/ Sram AXS with budget fork.


in context of XC to light trail,
Fox: the Grip damper in Performance level actually perform better than Fit4 in Performance Elite or Factory. So, sweet spot is there. Fox 34 StepCast Performance or Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox: no budget sweetspot. Ultimate level is the way to go if budget allow. But the Select level is also 'fine'. Actually, Rockshox Sid Ultimate or Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate isn't that expensive if you can find a right deal.
Manitou: the budget R7 Expert is much worse than R7 Pro for just a bit cost saving. Go all the way to R7 Pro. Never get R7 Expert.

Regarding features:
1) Very serious rider will look for remote lockout compatible damper for sprint start and finish. Personally, I ditch fork lockout remote on modern downcountry/XC bike.
Modern bike has slacker HTA, longer top tube, shorter stem. All of that result in less weight on front wheel than traditional (old) geometry so when I stand up and sprint, the fork bob noticebly less now. I no longer need fork lockout for (my weak) sprint.

2) Adjustability.
Sid Ultimate come with Raceday charger damper which only have rebound adjustment. Compression level is set for average male body weight (~160lbs) from the factory and cannot be changed. If you are around the bell curve 145-180lbs the compression will be set just right. Lighter may find it harsh. Heavier may find it lack compression damping.
Fox Fit4 damper is harsh for very light riders even with compression set to full soft. Fox Grip damper ride smoother/softer than Fit4.
Manitou have good range of adjustability and perform well for most.

3) Serviceability.
Fox require more propreitary tools to do any services.
Rockshox allow everything to be done at home with common tools. But service parts often go out of stock (seal, O ring, crush washer etc.)
Manitou service is really easy because the design is really simple and straight forward (but weight more). But then since it's not Fox or Rockshox. Many local bike shop and local suspension tuner don't know how to work on Manitou. So, learn to work on your own fork is preferred over asking bike shop do it.

Take damper service for example:
Fox: While you can do lower leg service. If you want to service the damper, it is better to send it to Fox to do it.
Rockshox: Remove lower casting first. Then remove damper cartridge from the right leg. Then bleed the damper in a similar way to bleeding (Sram) hydraulic brake. And then put them back. Replace crush washer everytime you remove lower leg (casting).
Manitou: remove top parts of right fork leg (adjuster knobs and compression unit of the damper). Pour old oil out. Pour new oil in, adjust oil level to spec then screw top part of damper back on. The fork lower doesn't even have to be removed to do this and even if you do, there is no single time use O ring or crush washer.

More on how they ride here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169663

But in the end, short list of fork for consideration is
Fox 34 StepCast Performance (2022 model or later. You can tell them apart by casting arch design. 2022 has curved arch. 2021 or older has squarer arch.), Fox 32 Stepcast Performance.
Rockshox Sid Ultimate, Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate.
Manitou R7 Pro.
This is incredibly helpful. Thank you for going into such detail.

User avatar
seamaster76
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

by seamaster76

I’ve read a lot on Italian forum regarding this topic and my choice was DT Swiss F232.

Best fork out of the box, no need to customize it, simply put it on and ride. Now there’s the possibility to choose within 2 rake: 51 and 44mm.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

DT Swiss rear shocks were the worst in term of home servicability. They literally say don't do it. Send the shock to DT to do any maintenance work.
How is the fork fare? Can you service everything at home?

User avatar
seamaster76
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

by seamaster76

Hexsense wrote:DT Swiss rear shocks were the worst in term of home servicability. They literally say don't do it. Send the shock to DT to do any maintenance work.
How is the fork fare? Can you service everything at home?
I don’t have any possibility to service my fork at home.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

seamaster76 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:40 am
Hexsense wrote:DT Swiss rear shocks were the worst in term of home servicability. They literally say don't do it. Send the shock to DT to do any maintenance work.
How is the fork fare? Can you service everything at home?
I don’t have any possibility to service my fork at home.
I searched it out out of curiosity.
From Dtswiss F232 manual,
Every 50 hours of ride time do lower leg service ( 20 minutes job, can be done at home or bike shop).
Every 200 hours of ride time or 1 year passed, send the whole fork back to Dt Swiss for complete service (lower leg+air spring + damper). Bike shop can't do this 200 hours/annually service.
Screenshot_20220913-112323_Drive.jpg
200 hours send fork in to service is a bummer. But at least the 50 hours one can be done at home, not really a deal breaker.

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