Shimano XT 12 Speed Vs SRAM Eagle 12 Speed - Which Should I buy?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

Moderator: Moderator Team

XCProMD
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

TheRich wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:47 am
I’m sorry but I don’t get what you mean.

I know the intricacies of the Microspline freehub and that there is an adaptor. I just wonder if we needed another cassette interface at all when there are two already available that’ll space up to 12 cogs and one of them has been around since 1996.
Did people make this complaint when SRAM went 11-speed? If so, the answer is the same.
It is not. SRAM went 11 on Shimano’s HG carrier until they needed to put a 10 T cog that didn’t fit. The only alternative was the Capreo HG freehub design which is not very good for a MTB. So they designed one from scratch. I don’t know the “people” but it sounds like a good reason to do it to me.

Shimano could have used the XD freehub carrier. But they chose to make their own instead.

by Weenie


TheRich
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

XCProMD wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:51 pm
TheRich wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:47 am
I’m sorry but I don’t get what you mean.

I know the intricacies of the Microspline freehub and that there is an adaptor. I just wonder if we needed another cassette interface at all when there are two already available that’ll space up to 12 cogs and one of them has been around since 1996.
Did people make this complaint when SRAM went 11-speed? If so, the answer is the same.
It is not. SRAM went 11 on Shimano’s HG carrier until they needed to put a 10 T cog that didn’t fit. The only alternative was the Capreo HG freehub design which is not very good for a MTB. So they designed one from scratch. I don’t know the “people” but it sounds like a good reason to do it to me.

Shimano could have used the XD freehub carrier. But they chose to make their own instead.
Shimano should make SRAM compatible hubs?

It is what it is, want a 10t cog, you're gonna have to dump that freehub that has been around for whoever knows how long...or spend 50% more (XT vs GX) for a SRAM cassette.

My point is that SRAM does the same thing for MTB, and there's silence. Then they do it for road....again, silence. Seems like something we should be used to.

Ritxis
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

XCProMD wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:51 pm
TheRich wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:47 am
I’m sorry but I don’t get what you mean.

I know the intricacies of the Microspline freehub and that there is an adaptor. I just wonder if we needed another cassette interface at all when there are two already available that’ll space up to 12 cogs and one of them has been around since 1996.
Did people make this complaint when SRAM went 11-speed? If so, the answer is the same.
It is not. SRAM went 11 on Shimano’s HG carrier until they needed to put a 10 T cog that didn’t fit. The only alternative was the Capreo HG freehub design which is not very good for a MTB. So they designed one from scratch. I don’t know the “people” but it sounds like a good reason to do it to me.

Shimano could have used the XD freehub carrier. But they chose to make their own instead.
Shimano does not make an XD (Sram Xd could be said to be an "evolution" of Capreo, or at least part of the same idea) why sometimes (not always) think better things

When you launch Dura-ace 12s, I doubt I will take out a Microspline-R (Sram XD for Mtb, XDr for road, or Sram didn't think so ??? ) as I put before, the Microspline could be compatible with HG cassettes and who knows, and who knows if Shimano or other brands will make HG 12s (11-XX) cassettes if they take out the patent adapter

ps: I hope it is understood, my English is limited and I help myself with translators.........

4536
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:35 pm

by 4536

robbosmans wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:49 am
If you are are worried about durability i wouldnt go with 12 speed, just 11 speed with a larger casette


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Yes. Or Sram 11, with smaller front (32?). Much less weight. 100 grams on cassette alone.

markb2392
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 9:49 am

by markb2392

shimano shifts so much nicer than sram under load, and can pedal backwards in the big gear without the chain falling off! havent had xt long to comment on reliability, but I went through 3 gx rear derailleurs in maybe 18 months, the cages are made of cheese. The freehub is a pain but luckily i was on dt hubs.

User avatar
TheRedMantra
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:51 pm

by TheRedMantra

I have been riding GX Eagle for over two seasons. This season I have 12sp Shimano XT and SLX on two bikes. I loved the performance of the Eagle kit. The Shimano is better. Noticably better. Even the SLX feels nicer than the GX but the XT level shifter is really nice qhen you want to quickly shift two harder gears at once. XT all day baby. And for those who bitch about cost and availability of microspline... you have to pay to play. Mtb is a luxury hobby.

Alfus
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:34 pm

by Alfus

Shimano works, SRAM....no.

User avatar
TheRedMantra
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:51 pm

by TheRedMantra

Alfus wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:07 pm
Shimano works, SRAM....no.
As a bike mechanic with 2 decades of riding experience I can say SRAM works. Setup may be more finicky for their products but it can also be tricky for Shimano. Sram bleeds are a bit more tedious but when done patiently they work very well. And they protect IBD margins unlike Shimano who has profilic gray market sales. Sram is a wonderful company that offers top notch customer service and is very much in touch with reality. Shimano really nails it on their drivetrain value though. Especially with their new 12sp. But Sram is very much so a viable alternative. Again, I can only speak from my experiences of 20 years of mountain biking and wrenching, so take it with a grain of salt.

markdjr
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:21 pm

by markdjr

If you go with Sram I would still use the Shimano cassette if possible.

XCProMD
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Exactly. Shimano’s smooth shifting come from 2 components:

1-Cassette ramping
2-“Centeron” guide pulley.

We tinkered a bit with some X01 derailleurs in which we managed to adapt the Shimano top pulley. Using Shimano’s new HG 12s cassette the result is marginally better than a full XTR system in terms of noise free-silky feeling shifting.

The XTR transmission seems to have its weak link in the shifting lever. Not very nice feeling in general and it is not infrequent to find lever that get stiff or completely stuck (we have already sent 3 for warranty our of 14 due to the latter). SRAM XX1 and X01 levers have a better, more positive and crisp feeling that lasts forever.

In my particular case I have made myself axial floating top pulleys for the SRAM RD’s and I’m not caring about the cassette. I think I have a good compromise as I’m
never going to transform my wheels to Microspline. Actually the standard SRAM set up were fine for me, but a more silent shifting doesn’t hurt.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

TheRich
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

XCProMD wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:51 pm
Exactly. Shimano’s smooth shifting come from 2 components:

1-Cassette ramping
2-“Centeron” guide pulley.

We tinkered a bit with some X01 derailleurs in which we managed to adapt the Shimano top pulley. Using Shimano’s new HG 12s cassette the result is marginally better than a full XTR system in terms of noise free-silky feeling shifting.

The XTR transmission seems to have its weak link in the shifting lever. Not very nice feeling in general and it is not infrequent to find lever that get stiff or completely stuck (we have already sent 3 for warranty our of 14 due to the latter). SRAM XX1 and X01 levers have a better, more positive and crisp feeling that lasts forever.

In my particular case I have made myself axial floating top pulleys for the SRAM RD’s and I’m not caring about the cassette. I think I have a good compromise as I’m
never going to transform my wheels to Microspline. Actually the standard SRAM set up were fine for me, but a more silent shifting doesn’t hurt.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
A lot of that is because the way that the levers function, since Shimano refuses to offend it's old customers that demand a dual action release lever, it'll never feel as crips as a SRAM shifter that only operates in one direction.

tomee
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:52 am
Location: AUS

by tomee

what is a ligthweight cassette to replace the 600g NX 12 speed that'll work with the standard Shimano hub?

NickJHP
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

tomee wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:18 am
what is a ligthweight cassette to replace the 600g NX 12 speed that'll work with the standard Shimano hub?
ZTTO have an 11-52 which they claim is 413g: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917903708.html. To shed weight, the five largest cogs are aluminium. I've never seen this one in the flesh, but I have a couple of their 11-36 11s cassettes which are pretty well made...

tomee
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:52 am
Location: AUS

by tomee

NickJHP wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:33 am
tomee wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:18 am
what is a ligthweight cassette to replace the 600g NX 12 speed that'll work with the standard Shimano hub?
ZTTO have an 11-52 which they claim is 413g: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917903708.html. To shed weight, the five largest cogs are aluminium. I've never seen this one in the flesh, but I have a couple of their 11-36 11s cassettes which are pretty well made...
thanks!
Just not getting along with my sram groupset. was planning on changing out to XT without swapping out to microspline hub

Post Reply