XTR 12 Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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Karvalo
Posts: 737
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by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:48 am
eliflap-scalpel wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:34 pm
When is the Di2 version scheduled?
and what about an update of 11 speeds Di2 firmware to run 12 speeds ?
Why do people keep living in this delusional idea that any company would do this.
Shimano pretty much always do. At least for parts that don't have built in mechanical differences.


Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Karvalo wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:48 am
eliflap-scalpel wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:34 pm
When is the Di2 version scheduled?
and what about an update of 11 speeds Di2 firmware to run 12 speeds ?
Why do people keep living in this delusional idea that any company would do this.
Shimano pretty much always do. At least for parts that don't have built in mechanical differences.
But that's not what's being suggested by that post..
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Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:02 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:48 am
eliflap-scalpel wrote:
and what about an update of 11 speeds Di2 firmware to run 12 speeds ?
Why do people keep living in this delusional idea that any company would do this.
Shimano pretty much always do. At least for parts that don't have built in mechanical differences.
But that's not what's being suggested by that post..
Ok, but the reason that won't happen is not the reason you are suggesting.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Karvalo wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:02 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:48 am
Why do people keep living in this delusional idea that any company would do this.
Shimano pretty much always do. At least for parts that don't have built in mechanical differences.
But that's not what's being suggested by that post..
Ok, but the reason that won't happen is not the reason you are suggesting.
The reason being they have zero interest in allowing components such as derailleurs to be switched from 10 to 11 to 12 to whatever speeds because they would impact the sale of new products. Yes some people will buy individual parts but Shimano have also historically made that unworkable through firmware updates too.
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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:52 am
The reason being they have zero interest in allowing components such as derailleurs to be switched from 10 to 11 to 12 to whatever speeds because they would impac the sale of new products.
No, the reason they have zero interest in allowing derailleurs to be switched between speeds is because they wouldn't work as well. I'm sure you've seen Graeme's posts about how anal Campagnolo are about insisting on using the entire shifting ecosystem together? Now imagine Shimano's boffins deciding that actually, using a mech designed to shift an 11 speed chain over an 11-40 range is going to be perfectly up to their standards shifting a 12 speed chain across a 10-51 range?
Yes some people will buy individual parts but Shimano have also historically made that unworkable through firmware updates too.
Except it's the opposite, they usually issue firmware updates that do make it workable :noidea:

If you look at the road hydro groups the new shifters are insanely expensive - so money grubbing Shimano surely made it so you have to use the new shifters with the new groups, right? Nope... Heck, I'll make a bet with you right now that unless they go wireless you'll be able to buy a 12 speed XTR DI2 rear mech and plug it into your existing 11 speed shifter, battery and junctions.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

I wasnt talking about shifters or associated etube components, we all know they're compatible and shimano kept them that way to reduce line items. Were talking about derailleurs, and yes they have made firmware updates to remove the ability to run the 10s front derailleur with an 11s rear derailleur for example, remember that surprise when people would update things and the whole thing stopped till the front mech was replaced? Also the 11s Di2 mountain rear mechs wouldnt work with road front mechs for those who wanted a wider range gravel option than the MTB front derailleur would allow.

You're completely missing the point on what people are asking.

Of course an 11s chain wont run on a 12s cassette but people here seem to think that Sram or Shimano are going to drop a firmware update to make their 11 speed rear mech index 12 speed and with a chain and casette swap be on their way, never going to happen.


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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:04 am
Of course an 11s chain wont run on a 12s cassette
No-one said anything about mixing and matching chains and cassettes. You're not listening.
but people here seem to think that Sram or Shimano are going to drop a firmware update to make their 11 speed rear mech index 12 speed and with a chain and casette swap be on their way, never going to happen.
Yes, I know. But the reason for that is not the reason you claim. It's not greed, it's functionality. Shimano do facilitate the mixing and matching, and piecemeal updating of a wide range of extremely expensive components that they could quite easily lock off if their main concern was to force the consumer into buying everything.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

And again you're not listening. The question being asked both here and in the Sram thread was will their be a firmware update to make their existing 11s hardware 12s without buying new derailleurs.... How hard is it to understand that.
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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:28 am
And again you're not listening. The question being asked both here and in the Sram thread was will their be a firmware update to make their existing 11s hardware 12s without buying new derailleurs.... How hard is it to understand that.
Why do you think I don't know that?

I have been very, very clear about the fact that I am saying you're wrong about the reason why that is. You claim it's motivated by greed, I say it's functionality. And Shimano's history of allowing mix and match between generations when it doesn't affect mechanical function supports that.

Look, mate, I don't know why you're being so confrontational about it. Maybe calm down a touch and re-read what I'm saying and you might understand the conversation a bit better :noidea:

TurboKoo
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 pm

by TurboKoo

You should check if you have thin plastic spacer behind cassette. If not contact your local Shimano sales office to get one.
Scott Foil
Shimano 9150
Shimano FCR-9100-P
Shimano C60 tubulars

Ritxis
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

TurboKoo wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:07 am
You should check if you have thin plastic spacer behind cassette. If not contact your local Shimano sales office to get one.
Exact

Image


pag. 7 https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-MACS001-01-ENG.pdf

ooo
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

XTR brake levers BL-M9100 and Sram mount:

Image Image
'

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4184
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Just going to drop this link here: Shimano XTR delays drag on; Scylence hub cancelled

Scylence hub delayed or cancelled. The 11spd cassette and wide flange spacing hub also cancelled.

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Here's the Pinkbike interview https://www.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos- ... lable.html

It's interesting because it contradicts the CT story slightly - the delay on the crank wasn't just from the anodising fire but because they're having to redesign it to make it mass producable.

Also kinda incredible that this is the second time they've 'launched' the Scylence hub technology and the second time they've withdrawn it because it doesn't work.

TurboKoo
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 pm

by TurboKoo

Just received my AB chain ring.
Now my garage is ready with other bike being Cannondale Scalpel LTD also with new XTR.


Image
ImageImage
Scott Foil
Shimano 9150
Shimano FCR-9100-P
Shimano C60 tubulars


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