2019 Santa Cruz Highball C WW Project

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Hey everyone -

New to the forums, wanted to introduce myself and my new bike.

2019 Santa Cruz Highball C S, Medium Size.

Currently tipping the scale at 23.68 lbs or 10741g, goal is sub 20 lbs / 9070g. Build is almost 100% stock right now.

Mostly want to log the changes here, but I would also love some suggestions on where I can shed weight.

I haven't changed anything yet, but I did find a killer deal on a Rotor Kapic Carbon crankset with the inSpider powermeter, so that will be going on the bike. Everything else is still TBD.

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VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

by Weenie


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stoney
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:26 am

by stoney

Start with the wheels, then crankset, then cassette...that should drop about 900 grams (2 pounds) or more.

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robbosmans
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:40 pm
Location: Central Belgium
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by robbosmans

Welcome!

Axles are crazy heavy, hardlite is around
30g/axle, that’s a cheap upgrade.

Yeah wheels are heavy. You can get something aluminum at around 1400g. Thinking Stans crest, dt swiss…

Stem and bars is also ridiculous, 35 diameter on an xc bike lol, mt zoom/ Uno combo should save around 300g, you can trow in a MT Zoom seatpost as well and save another 100g.

Rotors, some ashima’s.

Cassette get a Garbaruk once this one wears out, cheaper and lighter than sram and shift great.

I think you can also get the better an lighter shock internals from the more expensive fox 32. Or just get a Sid SL which is better anyway

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

stoney wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:07 am
Start with the wheels, then crankset, then cassette...that should drop about 900 grams (2 pounds) or more.
Awesome. Already got a Rotor Kapic Carbon crank which will be here in a few days. What kind of wheels should I look at? I like the Santa Cruz Reserve ones, but they are rather pricey.
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

robbosmans wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:20 pm
Welcome!

Axles are crazy heavy, hardlite is around
30g/axle, that’s a cheap upgrade.

Yeah wheels are heavy. You can get something aluminum at around 1400g. Thinking Stans crest, dt swiss…

Stem and bars is also ridiculous, 35 diameter on an xc bike lol, mt zoom/ Uno combo should save around 300g, you can trow in a MT Zoom seatpost as well and save another 100g.

Rotors, some ashima’s.

Cassette get a Garbaruk once this one wears out, cheaper and lighter than sram and shift great.

I think you can also get the better an lighter shock internals from the more expensive fox 32. Or just get a Sid SL which is better anyway
Thanks! I'm super excited to get started and to update my progress here.

Is there a benefit to going aluminum vs. carbon besides cost? Are carbon rims on MTB disadvantageous for any reason?

Yeah the stem and bars are definitely anchors. I'm looking at the uno stem and then some sort of nice carbon bar - maybe the Santa Cruz brand one (202g) or if I can stomach the cost, the Extralite Ultrabar which is like 96g or something ridiculous like that. Are Mt. Zoom products reputable / safe?

Thanks for the heads up on the Ashimas and the Garbaruk - didn't know those were good options. I have an XX1 cassette (my friend gets a pro discount on SRAM so I got it like 50% off) on order, but it won't be here till December, so maybe I'll look at the Garbaruk instead.
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

hannawald
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Carbon rims are better, they are stiffer, just more expensive.
I have seen more people here with mt zoom bars but I would be afraid (but the same applies to Extralite, hopefully they won't crack suddenly but they can't be stiff at this weight and they won't survive falls... but no personal experience.)

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robbosmans
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:40 pm
Location: Central Belgium
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by robbosmans

Mt Zoom is great, definitely nothing to worry about, they have been around for some time now.

Yes carbon wheels can be stiffer, but nothing beats the value of nice set of alu wheels

Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

by Weasel

Yes - agree with above, carbon rims are nice and stiff, but you can get a really good set of alu rimmed wheels for about the same price as a single carbon rim - and possibly lighter(?).

My Highball is an older model, with the QR rear axle, and all the parts are similarly old, but might give you a few ideas - it's at just under 8.7kg at the moment and I'm hoping to drop a bit more when I finally change to tubeless (after a frustrating inner tube incident in the middle of nowhere!).

I've not weighed each component, but I believe the Wheelset is around 1450g - Black Series by Tune MAC 29's, which were sold by Wiggle at the time, and were basically Crest rims on Tune Hubs.
The rest of the build is basically XX1 group, Formula R1 brakes, Fox F29 RLC fork, King headset, Ritchey Superlogic Bar, seatpost & WCS stem, Fizik Antares saddle, Schwalbe Rocket Rons.
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stoney
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:26 am

by stoney

speedyspaghetti wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:43 pm
Awesome. Already got a Rotor Kapic Carbon crank which will be here in a few days. What kind of wheels should I look at? I like the Santa Cruz Reserve ones, but they are rather pricey.
I don't know what your budget is but the Roval Control 29 Carbon 6B XD weights 1450 grams, 29mm internal width, has a rider weight limit of 275 pounds, lifetime warranty, and costs $1350.00(USA).

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

hannawald wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:00 am
Carbon rims are better, they are stiffer, just more expensive.
I have seen more people here with mt zoom bars but I would be afraid (but the same applies to Extralite, hopefully they won't crack suddenly but they can't be stiff at this weight and they won't survive falls... but no personal experience.)
Yeah that's what I'm a little worried about with the Extralite bars... 92g is ridiculous, but no warranty/crash replacement on a $200+ handlebar might be a bit scary...
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

robbosmans wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:46 am
Mt Zoom is great, definitely nothing to worry about, they have been around for some time now.

Yes carbon wheels can be stiffer, but nothing beats the value of nice set of alu wheels
Sounds good. I was thinking of maybe doing DT XR331 rims (380g each) laced to either DT240s, or something a bit more boutique like Carbon-Ti or Industry 9 Hydras. Both of those combos, depending on spokes, should come in under 1400g for the pair.
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

stoney wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:04 am
speedyspaghetti wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:43 pm
Awesome. Already got a Rotor Kapic Carbon crank which will be here in a few days. What kind of wheels should I look at? I like the Santa Cruz Reserve ones, but they are rather pricey.
I don't know what your budget is but the Roval Control 29 Carbon 6B XD weights 1450 grams, 29mm internal width, has a rider weight limit of 275 pounds, lifetime warranty, and costs $1350.00(USA).
Ooh that could be a good option. So far I've debated on just building the wheels myself with DT XR331 rims laced to some nice hubs, or maybe going with LightBicycle or FarSports carbon rims on DT hubs.
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

speedyspaghetti
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 am

by speedyspaghetti

Weasel wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:01 am
Yes - agree with above, carbon rims are nice and stiff, but you can get a really good set of alu rimmed wheels for about the same price as a single carbon rim - and possibly lighter(?).

My Highball is an older model, with the QR rear axle, and all the parts are similarly old, but might give you a few ideas - it's at just under 8.7kg at the moment and I'm hoping to drop a bit more when I finally change to tubeless (after a frustrating inner tube incident in the middle of nowhere!).

I've not weighed each component, but I believe the Wheelset is around 1450g - Black Series by Tune MAC 29's, which were sold by Wiggle at the time, and were basically Crest rims on Tune Hubs.
The rest of the build is basically XX1 group, Formula R1 brakes, Fox F29 RLC fork, King headset, Ritchey Superlogic Bar, seatpost & WCS stem, Fizik Antares saddle, Schwalbe Rocket Rons.
Oh man, that's a gorgeous bike! Congrats! How do you like those Formula brakes? Those look really freaking good, but $600 for a pair sounds pretty steep...

Definitely go tubeless if you can - I'll never go back to tubes after trying out tubeless.

I'm wondering how you got yours so light - what was the biggest contributor? Is yours a CC carbon? Or was that not a thing yet?
VeloBuild VB-R-022: 105 Brifters, Ultegra FD/RD, Vuelta EvoLite Wheels
'89 Specialized Allez: Full Dura-Ace 7400, Mavic MA40s
'91 Bridgestone MB-6: Full Suntour XCM

Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

by Weasel

Thank you. Yeah - I wish I'd actually weighed everything now before I put it together, but I did get everything for it with the intention of each component being about as light as I could sensibly afford. I'm sure it could be lighter still, but I think its quite a sensible weight now without going too fragile or stupidly expensive.

I do really like the Formula brakes - really strong braking considering 160mm rotors. I suppose one thing I wish they had was a bite point adjustment, as there's really not much free movement of the lever before they bite, and even if I push the pads/pistons back a bit, they go straight back to the same position once the levers have been pulled a couple of times.

My frame is before they had the C and CC models. I bought it a few years ago when it was 'end of season', and I guess the next year was when they introduced the thru-axle rear, so I got it for a bargain price.
I had a Blur Carbon at the time as well, but unfortunately sold that a couple of years ago cos I just wasn't using it enough. Still keep looking at the new ones though!!! :wink:

rothwem
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:45 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

by rothwem

I had a set of the Formula R1s, they were awesome for the first 6 months or so, but I soured on them pretty quickly after that. The pads started to stick on me no matter how much I tried cleaning them, and they rubbed the rotor basically all the time. The rotors are also slightly thinner than a normal rotor, so they're basically never true, which compounds with the sticky pistons to make for a constantly rubbing rotor. Oh and if you don't realize that your rotors are thinner than normal and you ding one on a MTB trip and you buy a normal Shimano one at the bike shop because you want to ride the next day, you will DEFINITELY have rotors that rub.

Oh and bleeding them was always tricky too, I had a tough time getting the lever travel right, the block you get with the Formula bleed kit resulted in a really close to the bar lever position and the shimano block made for a super far out lever bite point.

They looked badass though with the red bodies and carbon levers, and they were really light. They also were pretty nice to ride with when they were working right. I rode mine for a few years and ditched them for XT M785's and never looked back.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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