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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 22
Hi,

Lately I have been seeing Campy 11 speed groupsets being fitted by my local bikeshops that do not yet have the campy 11 speed chaintool (UT-CN300 ).

Is this recommended? Is it even safe enough to consider in the first place (besides reduced chain life).

Tks,
Leonard


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:05 pm 
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No it is not safe. The new joining pin must be peened on the right end to hold it in place. Only the Campy tool can properly support the left end of the pin and peen the right end with the properly shaped conical drive pin.

Most chain tools don't even fit an 11 speed chain properly - not supporting the back side of the outer plates. Most tools will contact the chain only at the middle U-shaped support.

5.9mm connector links with the narrowest inside dimension could be used to join the chain more safely, but the side clearance will be greater than it should be, since the width across the inner plates is .1mm narrower than any other chain on the market. The normal side clearance is only .1-.2mm.

The possible links are the SRAM 10 powerloc, Forster superlink model 4 and the special KMC missing link made just for the Campy UN chain. These links might click as they pass over the cassette and might cause some shifting problems, but they shouldn't come apart.

In a real pinch, I might try a Shimano replacement pin, installed from the left side, so any pin protrusion was to the right side, but I would be very sure that a substantial driving force was required. If not, I wouldn't trust the pin to stay in place.

The 11 speed pins behave differently than any other chain I've broken apart. When one of these pins is pushed out, the peening shears off with a snap and leaves a ring of broken metal around the drive pin. You can forget about the pin having any holding power at all, if you drive it back in place. Some people foolishly do that with current 10 speed chains.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Location: Southern Indiana USA
My experience is that there are 2 kinds of bike shops.

1. In the business because they love bikes and riding

2. In the business to make money.

These bike shops appear to be type 2. I generally avoid type 2 bike shops at all costs.

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For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:20 pm 
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yourdaguy wrote:
My experience is that there are 2 kinds of bike shops.

1. In the business because they love bikes and riding

2. In the business to make money.

These bike shops appear to be type 2. I generally avoid type 2 bike shops at all costs.

Perhaps type 1 needs to be subdivided.
1. In the business because they love bikes and riding
a. and know what they're doing
b. and don't know what they're doing

Some of those shops you've characterized as type 2 are really type 1.b.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Very good point.

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For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
Agreed that its best but 1200 miles without issue (I do inspect it often)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:34 pm 
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rustychain wrote:
Agreed that its best but 1200 miles without issue (I do inspect it often)


Do you even know how the chain was joined by your shop? What is it you are "inspecting"? As long as the joining pin is in place what can you inspect? It's not like you're going to finish a ride and find the pin pushed halfway out of the sideplate (unless you're real lucky).

Having installed one of these new pins, I can tell you that it did not take much force to insert it from the left side. If the guide portion was broken off and nothing else done, that pin would have little holding power. It's not like the old HD-L pin that could be installed easily with just about any chain tool.

I'd seriously try a Shimano 5.9mm pin before I'd trust the new Campy pin without the end peening. Better yet, use a 5.9mm connector link and see if the the noise is an issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:56 am 
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in a pinch i would use the rohloff revolver two


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Here's a little more detail about the new joining pin. Although I've noted how the new tools "peens" the end of the pin, it's really not a conventional peening process where the pin material is deformed. The right end of the pin has a shallow split in it and there is a separate tube inside the joining pin. The new tool has a conical driving pin that flares the end of this tube, spreading the split end of the pin apart. The conical point is a little less than a 90 degree included angle.

I'm sure that a conventional chain tool could have the end of the driving pin ground to a conical shape and the jaws modified to support the left end of the pin, but it seems like a lot of work when the Campy tool can be had for $150 or so.


Last edited by DaveS on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Location: Southern Indiana USA
Then Park will come out with a better tool for $55 and then Pedro's will come out with a tool for $35.

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For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 am 
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yourdaguy wrote:
Then Park will come out with a better tool for $55 and then Pedro's will come out with a tool for $35.

But use of them will void the Campagnolo warranty, and may result in severe injury or death.

Edited back to original state after inadvertent editing.


Last edited by HammerTime2 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:06 am 
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I never heard of any company paying a warranty on a cycle chain. Actually, I think working on your bike yourself voids that Campy warranty.

_________________
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:14 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Shouldn't we all be dead by now?

Ciao, :wink:

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Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:03 am 
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Hammertime2 wrote:
But use of them will void the Campagnolo warranty, and may result in severe injury or death.

My bad. I was doing this from memory. The correct wording is "a component of the bicycle can fail, resulitng in an accident, personal injury or death." Again, my aplogies to Campagnolo for not accurately stating the warning. Of course, you are only allowed to ride Campagnolo 11 on Campagnolo Pro Roads. All other uses are forbidden.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:51 am 
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
the 11 speed chain tool weighs in at 365grams!!!!!!!!!!!

just a little trivia :P


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