Training Programme - Comments Please

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viney
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:09 pm

by viney

Hi All,

I'm looking to increase both my 5 minute and 20 minute power outputs and below are my details and current typical weekly training programme, which I've been following for around 12 weeks (had 7 weeks off before this). I'm getting faster, but any comments on the programme would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not road racing, but will be entering some Sportives and possibly a local Hill Climb, so an increase in the 5 minute power would be good along with the 20 minute also for overall speed.

Would like to get to 300W for the 20 minute and 375W for the 5 minute.

Paul Vine - Cycling Training Programme

Age: 40 Years
Weight: 59 to 61kg depending on time of day
Maximum Heart Rate: 193
Zone 6 HR: 176 to 193
Zone 5 HR: 161 to 175 Approx.
Zone 4 HR: 150 to 160
Zone 2 & 3 HR: 120 to 150
Zone 1 HR: Below 120

Estimated 5 minute power: 325W
Estimated 20 minute power or FTP: 250 to 275W

Monday
Cycle In: 120 minutes ride; 2x (20min + 5min) LTHR/Recovery Intervals.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR

Tuesday
Day Off

Wednesday
Cycle In: 120 minutes ride; Zone 1 to 3 HR
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR

Thursday
Day Off

Friday
Cycle Home: 120 minutes ride; Hilly Ride or ride with 3x (3min + 5min) & 3x (2min + 3min) VO2 max /recovery intervals.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR

Saturday
Day Off

Sunday
Club Ride: 180 minutes Zone 1 to 3 HR (on my own) + 120 to 180 minutes whatever.

Thanks in advance.

by Weenie


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Martin.F
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Norway, Drammen

by Martin.F

Estimated 20 min 250-275 is quite a big gap, especially for one of your size. Do you measure by a powermeter or are you using a hillclimb calculator?
As a comment to your programme, the intervals looks fine. You should throw in some intervals on wednesday, and keep the easy rides easy. This is essential in order to be able to ride the really hard rides hard.

300w 20min = approx 285w ftp/60kg = 4.75w/kg. It takes quite a bit of proper training and recovery to reach this level. For how long have you been riding? Any other sports background?

My suggestion:

Monday
Cycle In: 120 minutes ride; 2x (20min + 5min) LTHR/Recovery Intervals.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR Make sure this ride is easy.

Tuesday
Day Off

Wednesday
Cycle In: 120 minutes ride; Zone 1 to 3 HR I would throw in some intervals. Suggestion: Alternate between long (>40min) and shorter (8-12 min) threshold intervals
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR Make sure this ride is easy.

Thursday
Day Off

Friday
Cycle Home: 120 minutes ride; Hilly Ride or ride with 3x (3min + 5min) & 3x (2min + 3min) VO2 max /recovery intervals.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes rise; Zone 1 to 3 HR Make sure this ride is easy.

Saturday
Day Off

Sunday
Club Ride: 180 minutes Zone 1 to 3 HR (on my own) + 120 to 180 minutes whatever. Is this a 300-360min total, or depending on week?
WTB Syncros bar/stem unit for foil

viney
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:09 pm

by viney

Thanks for the comments on the programme.

I don't have a power meter, but i'm estimating using bikecalculator.com around a 3.1km course that I train on. I'm lapping around there at 5min 20secs at the moment on my LTHR, which using this tool equates to about 275w. I have no idea how accurate this tool is however.

On the programme, i'm going to throw in a couple of 30 min zone 4 sub-threshold intervals on the mid-week ride as I don't have any work in this zone, so probably a good idea.

Cheers

metal
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm

by metal

Yep, martin's comments are pretty spot on.

Your recovery rides from the earlier hard rides in the a.m. will definitely suffice for increasing adaption and aiding recovery.

-----

Your friday ride is described as 'hilly ride or ...'

But a hilly ride can be short sharp 300m hill climbs completed in under 1min even at 8-10% without too much stress. Or a hilly ride could be 1-2k climbs every 5k. The description isn't conclusive to understand the training stress. But, the statement after does give a good indication of the level of intensity your aiming at (i.e. vo2max intervals)

So, odds are your 'hilly' friday ride might need more training stress, or your v02max intervals may not be hard enough? But it is very hard to say without hr, watts, and rpe info...

If it is indeed a 120min ride, and your only getting in 15mins total of full on proper vo2max intervals, then it probably needs a little more time at or just below v02.

If you can add in 2 intervals, at lactate threshold, or just slightly above, of 6-8 mins each (as in, lead in intervals, before the sets of 3 and 2 min intervals), then it will both aid you in more efficient training time, and also help you complete the harder 3 and 2 min intervals more effectively.

The first interval would be at the same intensity as your monday am lactate threshold interval. i.e. your pushing but not hurting. Make it 6-8mins.

The second interval is the same as the first, but you should feel like it is easier, even though your going faster relative to the first interval.

Follow these 2 with a 10min break (with about 5 mins between the 2 intervals).

-----

As Martin asked, is your sunday ride 5-6 hours?

If so, your monday am workout will be subpar, and won't elicit any great adaption due to fatigue.

If you make the monday am workout a 60min or less recovery ride, and the monday pm ride a 90min or so, 2x20min lactate threshold workout, then you would be better off.

My suggestion for your wednesday ride is different from Martin's though. I'd suggest a workout of lots of jumps, or multiple surge sprints, or a few full sprints, or a combination of all 3.

It builds neuromuscular power, but it also helps elicits a very good change in regards to vo2max level power (due to increased lactate capacity, as well as increased adaption and hypertrophy within the recruited fast twitch muscle fibres used in both sprints and sub 5min intervals).


As indicated though, although you may not need a power meter to judge the level of effort needed for your intervals, a power meter does make it easy to quantify your training results, and see improvement.

There are very few who can judge intervals by pure RPE without several years of understanding of how their body reacts. And a power meter is a quick way of making someone understand the physiology of how to train above lactate threshold.

You don't need a $2000+ srm. A pro level powertap with a decent ant+ computer will definately help you (powertap pro built up training wheel is around $1000, with the computer 200-300 depending on chosen model).

I would say that give your current estimated power, and training load, your a prime candidate for a power meter.

It really does help alot with training quantitatively :)

Cheers,
metal

viney
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:09 pm

by viney

Thanks for the additional comments, very useful!

You're correct about the Monday ride after Sunday, I'm going to make this one easy and not push again to Tuesday. The Sunday ride is normally around 4 to 6 hours depending on the time I get out and family commitments etc.

Not going to invest in a Powert Tap & Meter at the moment, as funds won't allow. I'm going to try trainerroad.com with my turbo first, to get a feel for training with power in the interim and then i'll take it from there. I have no idea how accurate this thing is, but at least it'll give me some idea of improvement, say every 2 weeks.

Cheers

Paul

rkwaki
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:01 pm

by rkwaki

Well I guess I have to get my post count up:
Monday - easy spin 60 minutes, Z1-2
Tuesday - 20 Minute Warm-up, Short intervals - 30 second sprints x 4, 1.5 minutes between sprints, 10 minutes rest, do a second set, cooldown
Wednesday - 2-3 hour endurance ride, Z2/3
Thursday - 20 minute warm-up, Long intervals
Friday - rest
Saturday, long endurance ride with 1x20 minute between hour 1 and 2 and 1x20 between hour 2 and 3
Sunday - endurance ride

User avatar
Martin.F
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Norway, Drammen

by Martin.F

Nicely noticed about the early monday intervals, metal! - not a good idea to have really fatigued legs and only give them 12hrs to recover before they need to be ready for some tough work.

My estimate on TSS is something like this:

Monday: 140 + 20 = 160
Tuesday: 0
Wednesday: With intervals: 150+20 = 170, non-intervals around 50-60 pherhaps
Thursday: 0
Friday: 130 + 20 = 130
Saturday: 0
Sunday: 200-250

So a total of around 700TSS which should be close in terms of getting you to a 4.75 w/kg threshold.

What I would do in addition to what I mentioned earlier is to somewhat bump up the load (TSS). The load can come from a LSD on saturday every other week, or from adding an interval to each ride. To improve you need to increase the stress to the body, making it adapt and recover to a higher level than it was. Increase load in steps for 3-4 weeks, then bring it down a bit for a week.

You should aim for a total of around 70-90min @ threshold during threshold intervals, around 20 minutes @ vo2max on the vo2maxdays and around 90-120minutes on the SST days (sub-threshold).

I must say metal, I disagree with the neuromuscular training on wednesdays as it gives very little in return for a lot of time. Very few people need more than 1100w sprints, but everyone can make use of increased threshold power. I would invest more time in threshold and some time in vo2max, but little to no time on neuromuscular power.
WTB Syncros bar/stem unit for foil

by Weenie


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