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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 1:53 am
Posts: 11
Hi - long time lurker, new member.

Couple of months ago I was offered a 12 month loan bike for my child who is a junior rider (Australian J17, very similar to UK Under16). It was to come with DA9000 (mech) but as we couldn't figure out how to make it race legal in terms of rollout, I declined and we borrowed a Di2 Ultegra set up instead.

Jump forward to now and I'm looking at a new bike for me and ultimately buying RacingChild their own bike but -horror - even Ultegra is about to go 11Speed. If the 10speed group is about to be consigned to history, it seems to make sense to go 11s

The current gearing challenge is a rollout of 7.0 meters (currently achieved with a 46 front and a 14-25 10 speed rear). I've written to both Shimano and SRAM and neither have any interest in supporting the 14-?? Cassette block in 11 speed.

So, my question to the brains trust is, how can I meet a rollout of 7.0m and ultimately 7.93m, with 11 speed?

My current source of 14-25 blocks (TA Specialties) does not make a Shimano 11 speed cluster. Surely there are UCI juniors now using DA 9000 or the Di2 11 speed equivalent!


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5093
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Per http://www.cycling.org.au/site/cycling/national/downloads/2012/Junior%20Gearing%20Information%20NR.%2023082012.pdf, blocking off gears is an allowable method of complying with gearing restrictions, except for National Road Championships. As to the technical feasibility of blocking off the necessary cogs (by being able to sufficiently adjust the derailleur limit screw), or the merits of blocking vs. other solutions, I defer to others.


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Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:08 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1224
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
What about a smaller front ring?


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:00 am
Posts: 67
I recently bought a Cannnondale SuperSix Evo Di2. I am a junior as well. What i'm going to do to meet the junior gearing criteria is buy Wickwerks junior gearing chainrings 44/34 and use a 12/28 cassette in the rear. That gear range is supposed to clear the 7mts.


Last edited by Tubularnator on Mon May 27, 2013 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
The OP's son is an Australian U17, who faces a 7.0 meter restriction, not the 7.93 meter restriction of U.S. juniors or Australian U19, so a 44/12 will be bigger than allowed for him.

On the other hand, surely there must be plenty of Australian U17 riders, coaches, etc. who could be consulted for suggestions.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Oh! My bad.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:13 pm
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Location: Finland
I used 46/14 back in the day with similar restriction. BBB makes 14-27 and 16-27 11 speed cassettes those are Campagnolo though...


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:12 pm
Posts: 16
Try contacting Hillbrick cycles, he has a good selection of Miche cassette cogs and can usually build what you need, I will check for you on Monday.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Can you take two 11sp cassettes with the correct solo and ganged cogs and build a 14-25 using a 10sp 14t outer cog?
I think that the small width difference will be acceptable for a single cog.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
The last suggestion, using a 14tooth 10 speed top cog with 11 speed cogs for the rest of the cassette maybe possible.

From the tech doc on the dura ace 9000 cassettes, you would have to buy a 11-23 as well as a 12-28.

You'd then take the 15, 16 loose cogs, and the 17-18-19 block, and the 21-23 block, from the 11-23.

And from the 12-28, you would take the 25-28 block.

Mash em all together with a 10speed 14t top cog, and you have a 14-28 speed cluster.

Note however... I have no idea if you can put the 25-28 block behind the 21-23 block and have the cog spacing correct... So unless you have a local bike store to try this with, i'd suggest another solution.


With a 7m rollout limit, you can get there with a 36x11 (approx 6.87m). So you could probably just use a blocked off compact 52-36 9000 crank. Imho, this is a better solution, and probably the one that will be used by the majority of those who have migrated to 11 speed this year in the u/17 division.

It's also good because you never need to worry about throwing a chain :) And if you use a 11-25 block, you have gears for pretty much any hill that they race over.


As for junior gearing with 7.93m limit... Man, they really don't know how to set gear limits :/ It's a royal pain to make anything in 11 speed clusters match the rollout closely.

You have 41x11 and 45x12... lol :) Neither of which will ever be made my shimano, and I doubt anyone will build an aftermarket chainrings for 9000 anytime soon.


Maybe a few are already trying 49x13 with a blocked off 12 cog with 20mm tyres (which should go under by a few cm). i.e. they would be using a 10 speed crank instead of a 9000 crank.

Imho though, your better off with 10 speed for now as you can get everything working with the junior 10 speed cassette range, including running a 52 chainring with a 14-xx block for u/19 level racing.

Cheers,
metal

/\ I raced u/17 AUS level back in my day :) /\


Last edited by metal on Sun May 26, 2013 9:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
Tech docs are here, http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/index.jsp

And here is the handy rollout and rpm calculator that I use :)

http://www.jbarrm.com/cgi-bin/c42strt.cgi

Use 668m for approx 23mm tyre.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
Just re-read you can't block off gears for national road titles.

Your best option is staying with 10 speed regardless then. You can move to a 52 front chainring with the 14 rear cog for the u/19 season.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 1:53 am
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metal wrote:
Just re-read you can't block off gears for national road titles.

Your best option is staying with 10 speed regardless then. You can move to a 52 front chainring with the 14 rear cog for the u/19 season.


That's pretty much my thinking. Until BBB or TA etc come out with an aftermarket block, it's 10speed all the way.

If they don't, in a couple of years time U19s will be racing 105 or Tiagra! Perhaps I should buy up new stocks of 10speed DA and Ultegra Di2 groups and then stick them on eBay in 3 or 4 years time! I might clean up!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1974
Location: NoVA/DC
I'd go for the BBB options on a Campy freehub and call it a day. Shifting is mighty close.


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Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:01 pm
Posts: 84
How bout something in the mtn 2x10 crankset range? They've got double rings (duh) that are smaller than road rings.

Just a thought

M


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