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 Post subject: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
Agreed....people are silly and want silly things. I don't want a noodle wheel or noodle frame, but I don't want a coal cart either. Compliance (flex) aids in comfort AND handling IME. I've had a stiff frame and stiff wheels, and I have had a more compliant frame with compliant wheels and I would take the latter in most all situations. That being said I do not have a limitless wealth of experience so I do not consider my opinion the end all, be all.

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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Posts: 1049
No argument there. In fact, having recently visited the UK, I've no idea how people tolerate modern carbon racing bikes on the roads of the South East. The condition of the road surfaces is worse than many supposed third world countries I visit. A lot of compliance might be a good idea if only riding in the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:56 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Bournemouth, UK
I'd love to be able to say the roads where I live in the UK are better, but last night did 45 miles over a familiar route and I can confirm that they are terrible. So many pot-holes, that would frankly wreck all but a bullet proof wheel if you landed in it, the talk of comfort, stiffness and aero kind of go out the window for survival in the winter months. Now the summer (a term used somewhat loosely!) is here we can see the remains of our roads after months of flooding and there isn't much to be happy about!

Moving back to wheels..... Im probably going to take my chances with either the Easton EA90 SLX or the Shimano 9000 C24 as they are light and get relatively good reviews, but if there is another obvious recommendation I've missed then could someone please speak up! The Marmotte is calling and I need to shed the grams.

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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Posts: 1049
I've seen a lot of spokes broken on the Eastons but the Shimanos and Mavics are top buys - particularly for riding around the Alps.


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 Post subject: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
I can put a vote for the Shimano c24s....top notch wheelset. I've had the Eastons and they are not as good IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:56 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Bournemouth, UK
I think the Shimanos are winning this. Cheers for all the help!

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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 2326
Location: Islip, NY
I would like to know the weight of the Rsys rims and see some comparative stiffness numbers. I don't doubt what airwise is saying. I've heard that they are very stiff wheels. Is there any comparative testing with them?

My current build is about the same weight (1398g including 2 layers of Stan's tape which weighs 28g). I included rim tape since you don't need it for the R-sys. Actual weight of R-sys is about 1375g so that's pretty close. The combination of ALchemy UL, CX-Ray/CX-Speed spokes and SL23 rims is very stiff in my book. I've flexed a lot of different wheels. Best way to exploit a flexy wheel is to sprint something very steep in a low gear. That's where you have more mechanical advantage on the wheels and some good resistance.

I will say with out a doubt the hubs I use are better. Mavic hubs have a fair track record, but not stellar like Shimano or Campagnolo.

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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 8226
Location: Geelong
Phill P wrote:
Fact is round CF tubes will buckle and fail when under enough compression, which is what happened to the early models, but my engineering judgement says these are still likely to fail far more catastrophically when the loads get out of balance than a tensile loaded steel spoke.

Funnily, Mavic have engineers of their own - who seem to disagree. So much that they have made a wheel, which now doesn't appear to suffer any of the (admittedly frightening) failures that it first did.

Reports, within this thread, of the strength of the wheel notwithstanding.


You've tested how many R-Sys wheels yourself? Or even ridden?

Being an engineer you could design a decent test or two, surely?



Phill P wrote:
How much did Basso get paid to ride the R-SYS wheels? Also what did Basso get busted for not long after riding these wheels to victory?

Puerile and not relevant.



Sticking to facts, or even first-hand experience, would be nice.

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 Post subject: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 2024
Location: Geneva
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Or dog ;)


:-D


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1049
ergott wrote:
I would like to know the weight of the Rsys rims and see some comparative stiffness numbers. I don't doubt what airwise is saying. I've heard that they are very stiff wheels. Is there any comparative testing with them?



There's plenty of stiffness tests showing not only the low overall lateral deflection but the equally stiff performance of the rear (unusual IME).

As for the weight there are two variants but both are sub 400g AFAIK. That will give you something like 150g saving on rotating mass even before we start discussing the lateral stiffness of the rear wheel.

Same goes for the C24 rim which is wonderfully light - if somewhat short lived IME given the thin side walls.


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 874
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Tinea Pedis wrote:

Sticking to facts, or even first-hand experience, would be nice.

..but its so much more fun to oppine "with my profesional experience" without any substantive evidence.
I trained as an "engineer" but still try to knock nails into concrete walls using my shoe...

The percieved frailty of these wheels seems to be a US/Internet thing. Lots of guys here race them, what you know as amateur Cat 1. Havent heard a bad word about them.

Better than C24s? Lets leave them to those that have ridden both to decide but I would agree with airwise, my C24s wore the rim down super super fast cf the Racing Zeros I had before..


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am
Posts: 1845
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Given the choice, I would take the wheels Ergot out lined above.
Same weight as R-SYS
As stiff or stiff enough
Probably lot more Aero (wouldn't be hard)
Probably a lot cheaper
No servicing problems (ie no bush in the cassette body, easy to obtain spokes)

The engineers at Mavic design wheels that market very well. I value aero over a few grams so my engineering judgement even frowns on large round CF spokes, I even frown on thick rectangular "bladed" Al spokes (disappointed campy were drawn into this). Mavic wheels are just not made for me.
That said I wouldn't own Shimano wheels either, but I still think they have solid engineering concepts (just not enough spokes for my size!) I love my Fulcrum racing 3s, but I know I'll have durability issues with the rear rim (not enough spokes, for me, but great for the majority of the population). If the racing quattros drop some grams for 2014 I'll get some of them, or if Alchemy do a 24 spoke triplet I'll get them and the SL23s for sure!!

Horses for courses, I just can't see many courses being perfectly suited to R-SYS wheels. I assume Mavic have a patent on the tension less CF tube spoke. Would put money on nobody copying the concept when that patent expires.

If you like riding them- great. I don't rate the engineering - I won't ever own a pair or recommend them (too many better options IMO).


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1049
I'm sure the engineers at Mavic value your opinion.

As for the wheels Ergot mentioned, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole for climbing sorry - far too much rotating mass and bugger all aero advantage at anything approaching normal speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am
Posts: 1845
Location: Melbourne, Australia
rotating mass is an issue for riding single track on a MTB, it isn't an issue for climbing on the road. Pure mass is the only issue for climbing.

If you do a lot of braking and then powering off again low rotational mass will have its advantages.
For climbing on the road once you have accelerated the wheel that energy will stay there and help prevent you from decelerating as quickly again.
If you ride some tight twisty crit tracks with a lot of corners to sprint out of, you'd want lower rotational mass wheels (but then you'd also not want the most unaero wheels tested either..)

Drink your cool aid, go ride your bike, be happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mavic R-Sys wheels
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:45 pm
Posts: 353
Location: UK
The above comment is the stupidest i've seen in along time, Ill sell my expensive wheels then and buy some basic heavy rims.

fool.

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