HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:42 am
Posts: 19
Location: Tahoe, NV
Tapeworm makes some great points, especially about Friel's dramatic periodization and peaking being more applicable to a few-event season like triathletes have. His point about weaknesses maybe not even mattering is also food for thought. I know lots of guys who are great crit riders who just get utterly dropped on 4 hour races. Their goals are to be good crit riders, not all-around racers.

Based on your stated weakness, I think some VO2 and anaerobic training would do you well.

Most important: keep having fun! Too many people focus so much on really specific training that they lose sight of the real reason we all do this to ourselves.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:47 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 161
Cool,

Based on the forum advice I have come up with the following:

Sun - Race or long 3/4hour Z2/3 with some sprint intervals (maybe the race winner intervals)Z 5/6
Mon - very light 1 1/2hours Z1-2
Tues - Chaingang + commute Z2,3,4,5
Weds - VO2 Max interval 5 x 4min at 350W (Z5) otherwise Z2 (possible 10 mile TT here with Powertap ridden as training)
Thus - Chilled max 160W 1 1/2 or 2 hours (ride with the mrs)
Fri - Big FTP effort (maybe 1hr at ftp) haven't worked out which interval yet.
Sat - Race prep ride following guide from book.

Total: about 11/12 hours per week.

Not sure on a warm up routine on race day. Most of our races have a 10 min breifing before the start so you tend to cool down a lot!

Hoping this introduction of more VO2 max stuff will help in races.

Any tweeks welcome.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2917
Location: Canada
I dont think you can hold that sort of schedule for very long. It still lack some decent recovery. You could plan some 2 consecutive days completely OFF once in a while.

People often over do the recovery rides. A complete day OFF will do wonders for your mental health if nothing else. There was a good article I saw yesterday on exercise addiction. I know we want to ride everyday to feel good, but I think its counter productive for performance in the long term.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1518
If you feel like the easy days are "too easy", then that is just evidence that you don't go hard enough on the hard days.

I feel like I need the easy days, and in fact they just don't make road bikes with low enough gears to be easy enough.
But I am old and have no natural ability. YMMV. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:19 pm
Posts: 900
Location: South Carolina
devinci wrote:
I dont think you can hold that sort of schedule for very long. It still lack some decent recovery. You could plan some 2 consecutive days completely OFF once in a while.

People often over do the recovery rides. A complete day OFF will do wonders for your mental health if nothing else. There was a good article I saw yesterday on exercise addiction. I know we want to ride everyday to feel good, but I think its counter productive for performance in the long term.



The mental aspect day off to me is a key factor as well. Especially after a solid training block. I need that.


I also like Tapeworms thought about if you really want to be good, there is no off season.


HUMP

_________________
Why are the best things in life always the ones you start last?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 161
I have to ride to work (no car) so 20 miles a day during the week in all weather for me! I am worried that there is not enough time spent doing intervals. I will see how it goes and monitor my ftp for progress :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:10 am
Posts: 3
Quote:
If you really want to be good accept that there is no off-season.

+1

There is race season, and there is training season. The "cycle" never ends.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2342
You need a rest day. Full stop.

That can be every week or two a fortnight, your choice. If you have to ride to commute that's going to mean that either 1) start researching the bus/train timetable 2) start to schedule days off on the weekend and that might just mean giving up on the odd race.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 1954
welkman wrote:
I have to ride to work (no car) so 20 miles a day during the week in all weather for me!
Leave for work earlier, ride slower. Either use it as recovery. Or, alternatively use it for interval training. Its (sort of) far enough to be useful, but not so far it'll kill you. Try longer routes home.

I did a year of 38 miles, 4 days a week to work. And i mixed it up with distance, speed and recovery. That season was a bit of an eye opener. (I did rather well)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 479
Rick wrote:
If you feel like the easy days are "too easy", then that is just evidence that you don't go hard enough on the hard days.
)
I agree. Good point. But I'm in my early 40s, so that's probably one reason why I agree :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 479
Yep, taking a complete day off can be hard and mess with ya head, especially if you live in a great climate.
However, it is refreshing. Getting back on the bike the next day or the day after really makes you wanna rip the cranks off.

If I'm having 'trouble' dealing with a day off, I do some light upper body weights, and/or lots of housework and chain cleaning.:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 161
I can easily make saturday or sunday a no ride day so no issue here.

As for the commute, it does tie into my training sessions as outlined above and is not an 'extra'. Having done a ftp session last night I think I might have underestimated my FTP level using the 20 min test procedure and I may have a go at setting a new level with a 'MAP' test. Perhaps my hard days are not hard enough?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:09 am
Posts: 27
In my experience MAP tests are better at obtaining my 5 minute power than they are at determining my FTP. If I throw the results from the MAP test and a 20 minute test into Golden Cheetah I get a CP value which provides an excellent estimate of my FTP.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 479
I hate to hijack this dude's thread, :D but it is pretty much the same topic. Australia is a 'race all year' situation, so I wonder how bad it is -- if at all -- trying to stay fit most of the year. Sure, a lot of guys will drop off over Winter, but plenty don't.

Is riding hard-ish all year that bad? It's not like I'm doing 25,000km a year; I'm lucky to do 18,000 in a good year, and a big week for me would be just over 400km.
Having said that, while I try to stay fit pretty much all year, life and crap weather eventually gets in the way, so I usually have the odd soft week or 3 (or 4) in the cold months.

I had a minor (but persistant) injury last Winter, so I had a very easy couple of months, and I wasn't as good at the start of the last crit season as I was in previous years, even though I trained pretty hard through August.

I know lots of guys at the local clubs who race 3 times a week all crit season, and they're often the better riders. ??



I was excited when I got Friels' book a few years ago, but was disappointed to find that it was more general and less specific than I hoped. And targetting a few races a year? What's up with that?! I'm not getting any younger, so I wanna race as much as I can. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
welkman wrote:
Sun - Race or long 3/4hour Z2/3 with some sprint intervals (maybe the race winner intervals)Z 5/6
Mon - very light 1 1/2hours Z1-2
Tues - Chaingang + commute Z2,3,4,5
Weds - VO2 Max interval 5 x 4min at 350W (Z5) otherwise Z2 (possible 10 mile TT here with Powertap ridden as training)
Thus - Chilled max 160W 1 1/2 or 2 hours (ride with the mrs)
Fri - Big FTP effort (maybe 1hr at ftp) haven't worked out which interval yet.
Sat - Race prep ride following guide from book.

Not sure on a warm up routine on race day. Most of our races have a 10 min breifing before the start so you tend to cool down a lot!


That program looks ok, though not sure what the race prep ride is?

As you commute 5 days a week, and your going to be doing long hard intervals on the friday, you probably need to make saturday a rest ride day. 30mins is enough, at about 50% of ftp on a flat block (1-3k) somewhere near your house. Just ride the 30mins at a leisurely pace, and do whatever cadence your legs feel like. It might be 80, it might be 100. Just cruise.

Also, if your not planning to peak for any specific races, you won't need to periodise your training. Though, you should consider a rest week every 3-4 weeks at about half your usual training stress so that your body will adapt and recover, and you will become a stronger rider because of it.

You need to be diligent about it though, and plan for it do be in your training program, and to stick with it.

The number 1 reason why riders start riding worse during a racing season is that they never 'unload'. They push out the k's week after week, and while their early season form is promising, by halfway through they are coming down with colds, feeling unmotivated, and generally not improving beyond their early season form.

I note you have a powertap and the 'the book', so you should read up on the performance manager part of the book. It is an invaluable tool when analysing your training.

I also recommend watching this video, even though it's aimed at triathletes,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFuG0KJuN8

What your looking for is the average tss score per day over a 3 week period of hard training. e.g. My guess is your doing about about 600tss a week?, or averaging about 85 per day. So on a recovery week, you need to aim at doing about 300tss for the whole week. How you achieve it is up to you. It can still include some hard efforts, but should generally be a reduced intensity and distance week.

If you follow the Performance Manager Chart, you should see the tsb just reach a positive number 2 to 3 times during this recovery week. This indicates that your body is recovered, and is ready for harder training than the previous month.

When you get back to hard training, you will feel motivated, your mind will be focused, and you will see higher power numbers across the board.

User Name wrote:
I hate to hijack this dude's thread, :D but it is pretty much the same topic. Australia is a 'race all year' situation, so I wonder how bad it is -- if at all -- trying to stay fit most of the year. Sure, a lot of guys will drop off over Winter, but plenty don't.

Is riding hard-ish all year that bad?

I know lots of guys at the local clubs who race 3 times a week all crit season, and they're often the better riders. ??

I was excited when I got Friels' book a few years ago, but was disappointed to find that it was more general and less specific than I hoped. And targetting a few races a year? What's up with that?! I'm not getting any younger, so I wanna race as much as I can. :D


It's generally ok to race all year, and just take a full week or 2 off completely once a year. You need to do this to give your mind a rest, and let your bodies hormones and adrenaline systems rest.

As above, and others have explained in this thread, periodisation isn't needed unless your aiming for a specific race(s). You still need an unload week every few weeks, but this can just be a 5/6 day period between two weekend races in a row where you just do a few recovery rides, with a mid range distance ride in the middle.

Friels book is ok, but really, I think 'the book' (Training and Racing with a Power Meter), and a quality powermeter, is a must for anyone wanting to train with a quantitative based method.

I don't specifically follow the training ride examples, but there is enough specific information in the book that anyone coming from a decent understanding of training principles, will be helped in improving their training regime by reading and applying the theory from the book.

< following info just for "User Name", or any other aussies :) >

If your in aus (like me :)), you can still purchase a powertap pro based training wheel from the US for under $1000, and get it imported without paying import duty and tax and such.

I bought my wheel when the dollar hit 1.05 in january, and I got it off ebay for just over 900 aus(950 us). With the limit being 1000 before they apply duty and taxes, you have to purchase when the dollar is good to ensure it comes in without being stopped.

Ebay only has three wheels under 1000 at the moment, cheapest is 916. Search for 'handspun powertap'. Handspun is a US mob that just build custom wheels. I got my wheel from a reseller of handspun wheels off ebay, with a mavic open4 cd rim, but they also do dt 450 or 465. Mine is still straight as a die too :)

But the cheapest I found just now was on wheelbuilder.com, http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dt-swiss-powertap-pro-special.html for $899 US.

Just remmember, you have to wait for the item to arrive before purchasing anything else from overseas. If the item comes in with something else from somewhere else, you could be slugged for duty and tax on both items.

Since I got my wheel, i've been seeing improvements (comeback MMAS2 season :P), and i've learn't a hell of alot about how to train more effectively.

I use a joule 2.0 (imported after wheel arrived), and it's an awesome computer too.

If your not too serious about your racing, then disregard this info. Just thought i'd chuck it up if you where interested (or if any other aussies are interested) in getting powermeter training happening on a budget.

Cheers,
metal


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:46 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Denver Sunday rides

in Cycle Chat

russianbear

1

120

Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:08 am

spud View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Train the Brain

in Training

Tapeworm

11

1347

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:49 pm

DanW View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Train with KK power reading or PM?

in Training

Nscott1463

10

540

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:49 am

Nscott1463 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Golden Cheetah train mode

in Training

jekyll man

0

548

Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:50 pm

jekyll man View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Good Places to Train in Dallas?

in Cycle Chat

cajer

3

183

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:30 am

cajer View the latest post


It is currently Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:34 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB