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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 161
Hi Guys,

I followed some advice from forum members which has lead to me getting into the best shape ever for this season! I have just picked up a cheap wired powertap and was wondering how to adapt my training now I am racing most weekends? I still have the same basic need to commute 20 miles a day but I have been doing the following based on a FTP test.


Sun: Race (Road 50 - 70 miles) or Crit 1hr
Monday: 45miles <200W recovery
Tues: Chain Gang 1h30m 290- 350W
Weds: normally another 45miles between 250 and 300W
Thus: 2x20 intervals at 300ishW
Fri: Longer ride around 220W
Sat: Rest

My FTP came out at 310W if that helps. I am working my way through 'racing and training with a power meter' which is great but I just need some quick tips to focus my training whilst I find the time to digest all the information in the book.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:20 pm 
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If you're trying to both train and race seriously every weekend, you can't do it.Training increases fitness and reduces form. Racing at your best or anywhere near it requires that you lose a little bit of fitness and increase your form (through proper tapering and reduced loads). You could attempt maintenance between race weekends but honestly this only can work for so long before it comes crashing down. Peak fitness can't be maintained for long periods of time. You can race to train but they won't be your top performances. And you're giving up your Saturday in this schedule instead of getting in some solid long distance rides.


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Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Location: Canada
there is very little recovery in your schedule. I can't see how a sub 200W 45 miles ride is a recovery ride. You are basically working a single quality there with your 3 days block doing mainly endurance rides. You should include some higher intensity efforts and more rest/easy days. It depends on what you want to achieve, something you havent mentionned.

I personnaly dont bother with tapering, fitness, form, blah blah blah


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:12 am 
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Location: New Zealand
You'll have to train through most of your less important races (and use them as power and speed sessions) and partially taper for you B-races (up to 3-4 of them) and only fully taper for your A-race. Wow at the power load of your recover ride!!....that'd be a serious ride for me!

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Used to race....got too wrinkly and old ;) Updated: Racing again! Thought this was unlikely! Eventually, I may even have a decent race!
Edit: HAD a decent race! 16/08/2014 :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:13 am 
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He's making a very common mistake. Hard rides too easy and easy rides too hard. That's not what his recovery ride should be. Not with those power numbers on the upper end.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:59 am 
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^ this.

From your schedule I would advise something like this:-

Sun: Race (Road 50 - 70 miles) or Crit 1hr Z3/4/5
Monday: 45miles <150W recovery - Z1
Tues: Chain Gang 1h30m 290- 350W - Z3/4
Weds: normally another 45miles Z1 (if feeling good add some short hard intervals to help with the crits eg: 4x30sec etc)
Thus: 2x20 intervals at 300ishW Z4
Fri: Longer ride around 150W Z1
Sat: Rest

And just to spell it out - Z1 means the granny gear is going to be worked a LOT. And if you're bored you're not doing it right.

And consider every 2nd or 3rd week having a full extra day off.

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"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am 
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Location: Uk
Sun: Race
Monday: Rest
Sat: 1:30-2hr Twinkle toes with 4-5max flat out 30sec efforts

My thoughts and not really knowing the overall goal or current level of fitness.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:18 am 
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Thanks for the great responce!

I will take on board the <150w for recovery riding, it just seems so slow. I have not really thought about A or B races as this is my first season, I am just feeling my way and entering races as an when they come up plus a weds 10 mile TT midweek if I am not racing at the weekend. I think I will adopt Tapeworms schedule for now. I think I could do with a bit more VO2 Max stuff in there as well.

Managed to hold my own against cat 2 riders yesterday so I am quite happy with my form for the start of the season.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:23 am 
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Sorry, I want to move up to Cat 3 (only need 3 more points) and also achieve a <25min TT on my road bike (10 mile). It would be nice to improve my positioning skill and end up improving on third place.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:55 pm 
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150W is like 45-50% of the OP's FTP - is there a great deal of value in a long recovery ride at that intensity? is there another way the time could be better spent? OP rides about a 10hr training week and we're talking about spending ~2hrs doing pretty empty kays.

perhaps a shorter recovery ride and some time walking, a massage, more sleep, etc, etc... idk, just asking the question of the resident experts.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:44 pm 
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welkman wrote:
...it just seems so slow....

Yes it is. But to expand on my earlier point, you should be very focused during this time despite riding along. There are plenty of things that can be worked whilst noodling around. Cadence drills, bike handling, positional work can all be undertaken during this time.

Quote:
10 mile TT midweek if I am not racing at the weekend.


Highly recommended. If doing a mid-week TT make the day before an easy one and smash the TT - it will be a defacto testing session to check if training load is correct.


mentok wrote:
150W is like 45-50% of the OP's FTP - is there a great deal of value in a long recovery ride at that intensity? is there another way the time could be better spent? OP rides about a 10hr training week and we're talking about spending ~2hrs doing pretty empty kays.

perhaps a shorter recovery ride and some time walking, a massage, more sleep, etc, etc... idk, just asking the question of the resident experts.


The km are not "empty". Recovery rides are essential 1) to help reduce the training load for recovery 2) time to focus and expand on drills listed above 3) there are a few physiological benefits to low level training, not as much as high levels but with a race, hard group ride and FTP and anaerobic intervals the is no need for further work in these higher levels, indeed more work in the higher range could yield overtraining 4) a walk would be of no benefit here 5) massage is always good regardless of training load, the more the better 6) sufficient sleep should never be forsaken for riding time.

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"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:03 am 
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Location: Tahoe, NV
I definitely agree with what's been said WRT recovery rides. I have heard them described as "taking your bike for a walk." The idea is just to get your legs moving and work out the crap in them, and if you're producing more crap you can't do that.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the importance of tailoring your training to address your personal weaknesses. Compared with your peers, what are your strengths & weaknesses? 310w may be a great FTP, depending on your weight, so maybe you are a good TT-er... You may need to work especially on sprints, or VO2 (didn't see any of that in your training--for your FTP you'd be doing like 4-5min intervals at ~350w), or something else.

Also you'll need to periodize. As said, maintaining peak form for more than a few weeks is impossible, and doing the same training week after week will result in you plateauing eventually, or just burning out. For example, I do ~18 hours a week during big base or build weeks, but only 10 or 11 hours when peaking or if I have an important race that week. Your body needs the bigger weeks to break down, but it also needs the "rest" weeks to rebuild.

All in all, I find the Allen & Coggan book to be very informative, but for a beginning racer and for designing a season-long program, Friel's is much easier to use.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:50 am 
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^ I don't disagree with any of the above but will offer some counterpoints to consider.

1) Personal weaknesses. Depending on racing goals this could be a very worthwhile goal or a huge waste of time. The weaknesses need to be weighed against the strengths and then both compared to the actual outcomes wanted. If time trialling is your only goal then working the sprint isn't going to help. If crits and short track races is the go then having massive endurance and being able to do back to back 6hr rides may not be priority.

2) Periodisation is a solid concept because it works. But is it always necessary? For amateurs there is generally far too much emphasis placed on this as well as "peaks" and relative recovery period. Even for pro cyclists the peaks and troughs are not massive, for the amateur even less so.

Depending on a particular stage of development simple linear progression can be used. That is - do the same schedule week in, week out. It only needs to be altered if progression fails or boredom sets in. Adequate rest should be factored into this progression. Very few actually reach the extent of this and instead want overly complex programing when it may not be warranted. When someone actually gets nutrition, recovery/sleep, and adheres to a simple program then huge gains can be made... Problem is, most don't.

Friel's work seems to be far more applicable to triathlon where there are a few goal races. When someone is racing once or even twice a week this model suffers.

"Decompression" or "recovery week" definitely have their place too, but it is "a week" and not months.

If you really want to be good accept that there is no off-season.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:59 pm 
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A lot to think about :D I think I will add in some VO2 max stuff and also some anerobic stuff. I noticed that in RR I am pretty poor at chasing down breaks but ok at recovering from the effort. I weigh 80kg and could maybe get down to 75kg at a push which I am working on. According to the book I am low cat 3 in terms of power to weight which is about right.

Still I enjoy the racing and training which is the main thing!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:26 am 
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Posts: 243
I think what you posted summarizes well the points above about falling into the Zone 3/4 trap. You spend most of your time training in that zone and so aerobically are good and recover well but those really high power output efforts you have trouble with.

Tapeworm mentioned dropping some of your workouts into zone one so that when it is time for the hard workout you can do more in zone 4/5.

What your doing is a decent way to train for TTs but the frequent explosive efforts followed by short periods of recovery that happen in RR and esp. crits requires more specific training.

Good luck, cat 4 can be a grind. Funny to see how many excellent racers will get stuck in cat 4 for half a season and be a cat 1 by the end of the year.


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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:26 am 


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