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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Question for a newbie.
I have recently bought a slightly used Tarmac Comp Rival Sl2 (2011) for $1300 dollars. I have been contemplating switching out frames to the 2013 Specialized Allez E5 OSBB. They typically go for 600-800 used.

As it stands right now, my Tarmac weighs 19.01lbs.(56")
Frame Weight: 1533g or 3.3lbs
I was blown away by this weight!!!

Specialized Allez: Stock Race Rival is 17.1lbs (56')
I don't know the frame weight, but it must be lighter because:
The only difference in components between my Tarmac and the stock allez race rival is the SLK crank, everything else is identical.

So is it better to be carbon an 2lbs heavier or aluminum with weight savings. From my research, I can sell my current frame for roughly the price that it would take to buy an Alles e5 osbb frame. Worth it? Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:29 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 8:39 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Dallas, TX
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is probably no way that the 2013 Allez frame weighs 2lbs less.

2lbs ~ 900g. If your tarmac weighs 1533g and we subtract 900g, then the Allez frame would be 633g. That's Cervelo rCA territory (the lightest production carbon bike).

I think the Allez Race frame comes in around 1200g +/- but I could be wrong. There are several 2013 builds in the Introduce Yourself/Gallery forum. Peruse those and you will probably find the frame weight. So by my guess, you will lose about 3/4" of a lb. There has to be something else that is making it weigh more. What tires and tubes do you have?

I am very surprised the SL2 Tarmac frameweighs 1533g. That is without the fork right? Makes me feel better about my new Ritchey steel frame I just bought which came in at 1789g for the frame.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:22 pm
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Location: Brooklyn
Get some killer wheels and keep the frame. Maybe now that everybody is going 11sp you can get some deals on good used wheelsets.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 280
I'd be surprised if the allez is that much lighter. My 2012 e5 osbb was 1300ish grams + almost 400 for the fork in a 58.

fwiw, I replaced it with a 58cm sl3 tarmac pro frameset that cost $1000, came with s-works crankset, seatpost, dropped over 300grams, and is definately stiffer and more comfortable in the rear triangle.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
Yeah, there's no way you're going to save much weight with the same parts. My 2012 56cm Allez frame is >1200g and the all-carbon forks (as come with the Allez frameset) should be identical - no less than 395g in any case.

Also, something is up with your Tarmac if it's 19.01 lbs... Water in the bottles? :)

My Allez is 18.5 with pig-iron Nemesis/Record wheels, 10-speed Centaur, 3TTT alloy cockpit and a steel-railed Regal! My Colnago C50 with the same wheels, 10-speed Record, Deda cockpit, and a carbon-railed Regale is 17.5.

You should have no trouble getting a Tarmac to 17.5 lbs with a modern parts spec.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:12 pm
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Thanks for the help so far all. Sorry for my mathematical impossibilities. The frame was weighed with fork/headset. My Tarmac was weighed without waterbottles but with iclick time carbon pedals.

In continuation of the research, I found the s-works allez model frameset to weigh in at an alleged ~1300 grams- nearly a .5lb difference. I've read the allez s-works frame is the same as the allez E5 OSBB only with SRAM red and roval wheels.

Here's the deal though. I can find the Allez frameset for roughly $700 online and I have found my frame to have sold on listings in the past two months for about the same price. My line of thinking is that I can drop weight without paying more. It would just be the work to strip the tarmac of its components and stick them on the Allez OSBB.

Here is the way it plays out
Situation 1
I buy $1300 full carbon bike that weighs 19.1.
Add high end components to make 17.5 (add $500)

Situation 2
I buy a $1300 full carbon bike that weighs 19.1.
Sell carbon frameset and pick up E5 OSBB aluminum with carbon fork (Sell for $700- buy for $700)
Put old components on new frame
Now I have a 18.6lb bike for the same price.
If i add the same components for $500, make the bike weigh 16.9.

Note: I have found other thread getting this aluminum frame into the 15lbs range.

So I guess the real question is, would you rather ride a 0.5lb heavier frame with the benefits of carbon, or 0.5 lighter frame made of aluminum?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:24 pm
Posts: 45
I haven't ridden the newer Allez, but I do own a 2010 Tarmac. It is now the oldest bike in my stable. I have replaced my MTB and cross bikes with newer models, but cannot convince myself to replace the Tarmac because I just love the way it fits/rides. FWIW, mine is built up with essentially all Ultegra 6700 components. With Zipp 303s and the computer, bottle cages and ultegra pedals installed, it tips the scales at exactly 16 pounds.

I think you would be crazy to replace the frame with the Allez. Instead, save your money for a set of wheels.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 8:39 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Dallas, TX
livethird,

You said the S Works Allez frameset allegedly weighs 1300g. I assume you are referring to the 2013 Allez frameset. That 1300g figure was for the frame only I'm sure. No fork. Other users have chimed in this thread that their frames weigh around that plus 390 for the fork. I think given your weight of 1533g for the Tarmac frame plus fork you are looking at a weight gain going to the Allez. I think it's a semantics thing. Most people weigh the frame separately, where as you weighed it with the fork.

Could you compare your current build list to that of the 17.5 Allez for us? Perhaps the frame is not the culprit.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
livethird, you're not comparing apples to oranges.

You measured your Tarmac Comp f/f/hs and came out to 1533g. This is good! (Well, relatively, this being Weight Weenies).

I can tell you 100% a 2012 Allez f/f/hs will weigh absolutely no less than 1200 or 1300g (frame), 395g (fork), 90g (headset). So absolute minimum, assuming you pick up a frame on the light end, you're looking at 1685g.

Which is an increase of 150g.... not surprisingly the approximate difference between the Allez and Tarmac frame weights.

If you put the same components on an Allez, it'll weigh ~150g more, so 19.26 lbs or so. I don't care what Specialized specs say.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
Frankly, I think the difference is that Specialized's published weight of the Allez is without bottle cages, pedals, seat, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
And quoting someone in the Introductions forum:

Frame/Fork
2013 Specialized Allez 58cm-w/headset, hang & BB
Tarmac SL4 full monocoque FACT carbon fork with tapered steerer 1879grams


Note that this # seems to include BB30 bearings, but still...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:10 am 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 7:13 am
Posts: 1512
The good news is that your current frame is lighter than the Allez. The bad news is your bike is heavy for other reasons.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Awesome! Thanks to all who have contributed. It's a relief to hear I've got the right skeleton to begin.
This bike is still completely stock. It is exactly as listed here:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Sorry, I was posting from a mobile and accidentally submitted that last post.

So it's a huge relief to hear that I have a decent starting skeleton. Now that we have remedied the fram to not be the issue, would you guys be willing to tell me my big problem spots? This bike is completely stock, so it is easy to create my list (*denotes any changes).

I know my biggest improvements could be some nice fast wheels, but I am interested in any problem components or other parts. My guess is my two starters would be the crank and handlebars, but I may be missing something more obvious. Also, if you note any problem areas, could you suggest good options to exchange with? Thanks again all! I truly appreciate it,

Frameset
Frame Specialized FACT 8r carbon, FACT IS construction, compact race design, 1-1/2" lower HS bearing, threaded BB
Fork Specialized FACT carbon full monocoque, OS race for 1-1/2" bearing
Headset 1-1/8" upper and 1-1/5" lower Cr-Mo cartridge bearings integrated w/ headset, 20mm cone spacer with 20mm of spacers

Drivetrain
Crankset SRAM S300
Cassette SRAM, 10-speed, 11-28t
Bottom Bracket With crankset
Front Derailleur SRAM Rival
Rear Derailleur SRAM Rival
Shifters SRAM Rival Double-Tap
Chain KMC X10 L CP
Pedals *i-click time carbon

Components
Front Brakes SRAM Rival
Rear Brakes SRAM Rival
Brake Levers SRAM Rival
Handlebars Specialized Ergo 2014 alloy
Stem Specialized Comp-Set, 3D forged alloy, 4-position adjustable, 4-bolt 31.8mm clamp
Seatpost Specialized Pro, FACT carbon w/ Zertz insert
Saddle Body Geometry Romin Comp w/ hollow Cr-Mo rails
Grips Specialized S-Wrap, w/ gel

Wheelset
Rims Fulcrum Racing 6

http://road-bikes.findthebest.com/l/227 ... Comp-Rival" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:42 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
Biggest delta will be lighter wheels. But i don't think that's where I would go, actually.

With 11-Speed RED announced, folks will soon be blowing out 2012/13 RED. So if you're happy with SRAM, I'd pick up a full RED 10-speed gruppo. Then i'd replace the cockpit and seat post with either 3TTT Pro pieces or Deda Zero100. Deda tends to lie a bit about weight, but either will get you reasonably light, good stuff. I run 3TTT on my cx bike and my Allez, and Deda on my Colnago.

You can save 100g for $80 if you buy a lighter carbon-railed, carbon-shelled saddle.

After all that, you should get some carbon tubulars of you're chasing weight. I run nemesis/Records, so I'm not the boy to speak to about that subject.


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