Aero or Nero (not aero) ? (New bike frame)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Which of these bikes?

Cervelo S5
12
15%
S Works Venge
10
13%
Madone 7.9
12
15%
Time ZXRS Ulteam
11
14%
BMC TMR01
20
25%
MCipollini RB1000
14
18%
 
Total votes: 79

stang1
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:57 am

by stang1

People of WW's , it is with great sadness for me to retire my S3 of its duties. The bike was crashed, repaired, taken out for a ride again and crashed on its very maiden ride. It is now beyond repair. :cry:

I have recently purchased a C59 when I sent my S3 for repair. The C59 is a very very nice bike to ride. However, I am looking for something different. I have read/haunted the WW threads and Internet day and night with alot of info on my hand, but am just damned down to choices.

I would really appreciate if any of WW members has had the chance/privilage to test ride these frames to give a very honest opinion about their feelings and thoughts. I am after a bike for the long flats where I can effortlessly just maintain high speeds, stiffness and responsiveness felt in every pedal stroke input. Harshness of the bike is not an issue. Coming from a S3, its pretty darn harsh ride :mrgreen: Every road gravel is translated onto the handlebars and you can feel very connected to the road.

Reasons I have come down to

S5 - reviews are that the front end of the bike is not stiff and very noodly ? Seemingly the team/vwd versions are the way to go.

Venge - Really not a marketing fan boy, but it seems like an improved s3 with a big "s" , hesistant to get a "S" and really common

Madone 7.9 - Interal brakes? I am not entirely convinced with internal brakings as of yet, the frame design itself is very nice but being a 83kg rider, I have heard from past reviewers of trek riders that the bikes feel very muted around 80kg++ range.

BMC TMR01 - again, internal brakes ? And the design doesnt appeal to me. Also, BMC warranty is very weird and poor from where I am. Had a huge article about the poor warranty issues at TDU 2013.

MCipollini RB1000 - lots of $$$ , coffee shop bike perhaps? :) Limited sizes/availability .

TIME ZXRS ULTEAM - reviews that its too harsh a ride ? But yet everyone that owns one loves them to bits ?

At the moment, I may be able to test ride the Venge, 7.9 , ZXRS and S5. But it will all be with a different grouppo to my bike. I might try using same saddles on all bikes and stem to rule out differences , but opinions are always welcomed.

5"10, 83kgs , 54cm on a s3 with 120mm stem.

Thanks WW .

by Weenie


justkeepedaling
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)

by justkeepedaling

The S5 is definitely the most aero bike in this list. If it's all about speed on the flats, that'd be the go to for me

User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

The only bike that you mentioned that I've ridden is the Madone. I was blown away with how efficiently it transferred power. I felt as if every single watt that I put down propelled me directly forward. I know that sounds odd, but I've never ridden such a torsionally rigid bike.

Im a fat ass too. At 100 kg I can usually make anything flex, but not the MadOne.

User avatar
Maximilian
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:09 pm
Location: London
Contact:

by Maximilian

Time, because it is different. The Cipo is unbelievably stiff! Had one for test, very fast on smooth roads, not if its at all crappy surfaced. The headtube is also very, very short.
--Max.

drchull
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:38 pm

by drchull

Foil, good aero properties and very very stiff.

Reviews say is a harsh ride though frankly I haven't really thought so.

stang1
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:57 am

by stang1

Thanks people, I really appreciate all the opinions.

justkeepedaling wrote:The S5 is definitely the most aero bike in this list. If it's all about speed on the flats, that'd be the go to for me


I like the s5, speed on flats will be what I am primarily looking for. As you would have guessed, the S5 is no WW, but I will have to deal with components thereafter. I guess I will have to really have a good test ride to compare between what I have available.

Zen Cyclery wrote:The only bike that you mentioned that I've ridden is the Madone. I was blown away with how efficiently it transferred power. I felt as if every single watt that I put down propelled me directly forward. I know that sounds odd, but I've never ridden such a torsionally rigid bike.

Im a fat ass too. At 100 kg I can usually make anything flex, but not the MadOne.


I have read your review prior, and was really encouraged, hence I had a really good thought about it. Will definitely give it a go. However, is there a difference between a 7.7 and 7.9?

drchull wrote:Foil, good aero properties and very very stiff.

Reviews say is a harsh ride though frankly I haven't really thought so.


Ah, the good ol' Foil, reason I didnt put it in my list is because one of my mates have the team issue. It has been nothing but numerous warranty issues for cracks @ the seatpost :| That bike has been replaced by the local distributor 3x already, I am not sure if its the new batch or has the issue has been resolved, so I thought i would save myself some trouble :lol:

Maximilian wrote:Time, because it is different. The Cipo is unbelievably stiff! Had one for test, very fast on smooth roads, not if its at all crappy surfaced. The headtube is also very, very short.


Time is what my LBS carries as thier primary range, I should be able to get a good ride in. Cipo ... the other bike shop doesnt allow test rides... and only has frames hung up with a "please contact staff members before touching the frame" :noidea: wtf are they thinking? Its not like anyone is gonna drop the frame if its properly hung... meh , Ill see if I can get to test ride one...

Thanks alot for the feedback guys, but alot of people have voted without giving a reason behind what they chose.. big "S" seems to be the winner...

More input guys! :beerchug: :beerchug:

Murphs
Posts: 1117
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:04 am
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia

by Murphs

I've ridden a Venge, previous model 6 series Madone (both for an hour) and a Foil for over 3 hours.

I prefer my BMC TMR01, stiffer than all three with comfort close to the Trek, which was comfortable but just felt a bit soft when riding it hard.

Didn't like the Venge at all.

tobyinsydney
in the industry
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:08 am

by tobyinsydney

I've ridden them all... and it would be a toss up between the Madone and the BMC. Both are beautiful to ride.

User avatar
Kayrehn
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

todyinsydney got it right, and since there's already 2 TMR01 in the group, looks like the Madone is your only choice mate :p

OliverRB
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:17 am

by OliverRB

The Madone is the best bike in the list,

Aerodynamically it's the most advanced. They have the patent on the KVF technology, which at certain wind angles actually produces thrust... (Yes as in it propels you forward) by acting like a sail on a boat moving into the wind. You can also go and download the white papers that give all the theory on this (although it cant always be trusted to be honest). Show me the papers explaining why the BMC is so aerodynamically efficient? Add on to all this that the frame weight is very competitive and the frame is reasonably comfortable and you get the best all rounder on the market today. A lot of people will scoff at the fact it says Trek on the side but at the end of the day who really cares, you get a great bike made in the USA at less of a cost than the boutique brands, and you can customise it through the project one site.

There are some downsides, like the bontrager brakes. They are really not great, particularly bad with Sram levers. Although the dura-ace brake set is very very good. Still, both sets are a pain to adjust.

And why didn't they just use a KVF seat post design.... all that technology and you end up with a round post just for the sake of making it easy to put in a stand? That confuses me...


All the other bikes are using age old technology to achieve aerodynamics that end up compromising other characteristics. If you look at the new Cervelo RCa it uses the same aerodynamic principle of virtual foils, the engineers at Cervelo saw such an advantage by doing this they are actually PAYING loyalties to Trek... now that says a lot from the people who claimed how great the S5 is.

User avatar
maverick_1
Posts: 720
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:20 pm
Location: Tokyo

by maverick_1

Okay, here's my take...

I'm not all convince with the aero or nero whatsoever, till date my favourite ride is still my good old '06 Time VXRS Ulteam. Not the lightest, nor aero, nor the stiffest of all bikes.

Bought the RB1000 frameset/fork after selling of my rather redundant Cannondale Slice TT bike.
Roadbike gave it a rave review, but I wasn't all the convince.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx? ... 7&cid=6110" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having owned a couple of bikes over the years (Colnago C50, Time VXR, VXRS, the monocoque Merckx MXM), I would have to agree that the RB1000 is crazy stiff! Coupled with a LW Std wheelset (or the RZR Team if it matters), this bike will literally beat you to death :lol:
This bike is suited when you're exceptionally fit and strong, and definitely not the bike to ride on when you just wanna cruise along (I will pick my VXRS or C50 for those kind of rides)

Here's mine, 6450 gr with the LW Std.

Cheers

Image

User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

@stang1- The 7.9 comes with a bit nicer wheels than the 7.7. But If I were you, I would buy the frameset alone and build up the rest of the bike yourself. The 7 series frame with Campy mechanical would be pretty badass.

FIJIGabe
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

All 7-series Madones use the same frame, just levels of components and options. Buying framesets from Trek are usually not a good option, from what I've seen (pricing). You will end up further ahead (pricing wise), if you buy a bike and part it out.
Madone 9 https://goo.gl/7UwZpV
Crockett https://goo.gl/f5PdCN
Madone 5 https://goo.gl/cMdyFo

Madone 4, Cobia. I own a lot of Treks.

User avatar
roadytracky
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:58 am
Location: Southern California

by roadytracky

I haven't ridden any of them so my input is next to useless. However, I chose the Cipollini in your poll just because it is the most bad-ass looking bike out there. I have no idea about it's aero qualities. In fact, I would be surpirsed if it's all show and no go as far as aero qualities go. If I found out not 1 minute was spent in a wind-tunnel developing the Cipo I wouldn't be surprised. 3 RB1000's showed up in one of the groups I ride with, and I just love looking at those bikes.

As far as the Venge goes, I ride with quite a few people who have the Specialized version (not the S-Works version), and they all have the same complaint as Leonard Zinn, it's way too stiff. Too stiff to the point it's skittish in corners is the specific complaint. Too bad because that's my favorite Specialized bike, a model I would consider for myself.

As far as the Trek goes, I never thought I would be impressed with a Trek, but after reading about the new Madone and building a couple, I must say Trek really swung for the fences with that bike. I want to spend some time on a DA 9070 Madone to see if all the no-compromise, out-of-the-box thinking (at least for Trek) on the Madone adds up to a great bike or not.

One last thing, my buddy just got his new BMC TMR01 a couple weeks ago, and it is stunning in person. Plus, as a rider who finds most bikes to have way too much head tube height, the BMC's short head tube looks perfect (same with the Cipo).

by Weenie


austke
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:03 am
Location: Queensland Australia

by austke

Maverick 1,
:thumbup: I love this RB1000, super nice with the Lightweights and Campy gear on it. :beerchug:
2013 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0, 6.92kg
2013 Giant Defy Composite 2 M, 8.5kg - Wife's
Azzurro Torino 8.55g
Fuji 650 10.8kg
Miele Lupa Triple Tandem 38,89kg

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post