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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Well to put this in perspective. Soft just means flexible. This can be overcome with hubs that give good bracing angles, this is the single most important thing when building with light weight rims and light weight spokes both of which are not inherantly stiff.

I use pair of 28H Kinlin XR-200's built with Laser spokes. I have sed Novatec A291 and F482 hubs as they give decent bracing angles.
Bracing angle is far more important then tension balance I have found.
Your proposed build with 28H rim on the rear and F482 hubs with laser NDS and Race DS laced in a 2x pattern will be fine. 1x DS heads in is just not worth it I think, I have never done it as if I felt a bild needed 2x lacing on the rear to make it work, I would pick another spoke, hub, rim combination that could use 2x or 3x lacing on the rear.

Brass nipples are fine but alloy seem to work well for me, just get the spoke lengths correct. While some do not like the quality of the XR-200 rim I have found nothing wrong with them. They seen to give even tension builds and are of cosnitent weight. Given the price difference between the XR-200 and the Stan's Alpha 340, I would se the XR-200, it's a decent rim.

I have never bilt with the XR-19W so I cannot comment on that. I will add my I might pt out similar ammount of power to you but as I do not have a powermeter I really cannot say.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
1x heads in DS is a hack to increase DS effective flange spacing on hubs that don't have much. If you do it on a hub with decent flange spacing you'll probably have spoke to derailleur collisions.

I've also not had a problem with alu nipples. I think I have partially rounded one, and that was due to being careless with the spoke wrench and not making sure it was fully seated before appling torque. Brass do turn a little easier but using some grease on the nipple takes care of that.


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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:49 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for the input guys. Based on a couple of other conversations, I decided to go with the 19W. Haven't built wheels with eyletted rims before, so I want to try it.

I went 20/24 which I may regret, but the WW in me really wanted a sub 1350g build.

Ordered it all from bikehubstore.com today. Looking forward to getting these built!

Bob


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
KLabs wrote:
Hi kavitator, thanks for the information. Yes, 125kg DS and 55-65kg NDS (NDS tension ratio of 44% to 52%) is nothing special is it, but 17mm aluminium axle, etc sounds good :)

Have you noticed if the 2 piece hub has affected stiffness or responsiveness in anyway ...

l


Hello - ok some news on BARTIME powerflange hubs -
After first rides wheelset is very stiff - but it is 60mm carbone tubular (open mould) 16 spokes front; 20 spokes rear (Cx rays). Stiffer than same wheelset on Novatec hubs.

What first was noticed was very very smooth running and stiffnes (test rider is 75kg ex elite racer - now one of the best amateur racers). Lacing is little different from ordinary hubs - you must remove left flange to insert spokes - but it is not tough job. Now we wait for some 10.000km on them.

cheers

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:11 am 
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kavitator wrote:
KLabs wrote:
Hi kavitator, thanks for the information. Yes, 125kg DS and 55-65kg NDS (NDS tension ratio of 44% to 52%) is nothing special is it, but 17mm aluminium axle, etc sounds good :)
Have you noticed if the 2 piece hub has affected stiffness or responsiveness in anyway ...

Hello - ok some news on BARTIME powerflange hubs -
After first rides wheelset is very stiff - but it is 60mm carbone tubular (open mould) 16 spokes front; 20 spokes rear (Cx rays). Stiffer than same wheelset on Novatec hubs.

What first was noticed was very very smooth running and stiffnes (test rider is 75kg ex elite racer - now one of the best amateur racers). Lacing is little different from ordinary hubs - you must remove left flange to insert spokes - but it is not tough job. Now we wait for some 10.000km on them.
cheers

Thanks kavitator, is that running 10 or 11spd cassette?
What rear spoke lacing did you use?
So you need to remove the left flange even when using CXrays ... is this correct?

thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:45 am 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
One rear i try with cx rays and complete hub - it can go but spokes must be be bend a lot - but not to damage them. With thicker spoke i dont think it will go. It is much easyer with flange removed

i photo wrong side of hub- but it shows
Image

rear 20 spokes i used 2x on DS and radial on NDS
rear 24 spokes i used 2x both sides

Wheels were for 10speed shimano

cheers

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: Reading, UK
bm0p700f wrote:
The Novatec F482SB (HG) and F582SB (ED10) is 245g. The rear hub has PCD DS =49mm and NDS =41mm and flange seperation DS =18mm and DS = 37mm. Drilling 20H, 24H and 28H. The SL version is 230g. The freehub body is easily replaced with 2x 5mm allen keys. There is no preload adjustment on these. They seem pretty durable though. Freehub bodies are pretty cheap as well.


This is quoting a post from back in January because it references a hub I am interested in. Can anyone confirm whether the Novatec rear hub F582SB for Campagnolo will take 11-speed cassettes?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Posts: 468
It does.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 458
I just bought myself some NOS Campagnolo omega strada hardox rims and I am looking for 36h hubs to mate them. I was after the record hubs but apparently they stopped making these in 36holes. I can't stretch my budget to chris king unfortunately. I was thinking of the Hope Pro3 Mono hubs unless there is some other recommendation?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:42 am 
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Location: Estonia
only front 36h
http://www.bike-components.de/products/ ... Nabe-.html

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:26 am 
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astranoc wrote:
I just bought myself some NOS Campagnolo omega strada hardox rims and I am looking for 36h hubs to mate them. I was after the record hubs but apparently they stopped making these in 36holes. I can't stretch my budget to chris king unfortunately. I was thinking of the Hope Pro3 Mono hubs unless there is some other recommendation?


White Industries? Only handled their fronts personally but there's a lot of love for their T11, and it costs less than a CK.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:02 pm 
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Posts: 9
I would like to get some input on my next project. I am going to be building up as set of Enve 3.4 clinchers with an Alchemy ELF front hub and Powertap G3 rear hub using Sapim X-ray spokes and pillar nipples. These are going to be my do it all wheels so strength, durability and performance are my concerns.

For the front wheel I am planning on doing a radial lacing pattern. What do you folks think of heads in verse heads out? I know radial lacing looks cool but what do you think of a 1x pattern for the front wheel. Is there a performance benefit?

For the rear wheel the plan was to do a 2x pattern on both sides, which happens to be the powertap recommendation. Then I read the hub review over at fairwheel bikes. The fairwheel suggestion is a 1x DS with heads in. So I am thinking I might do a 1x DS heads in and 2x NDS. I wanted to hear what everyone thinks before I commit to this build.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
NOS record hubs in 36H I think are still available here in the U.K. These will be the older ones with steel axles. Do you want some as I can order from the distributor.

Solrider 1x DS is sed to imporve bracing angle. Given NDS bracing angles are far more important for wheel stiffness then it make some bt little difference. Also you rims will be stiff so this fudge is probably not needed. If it is needed use Race spokes instead of CX-rays. I don't like fudges except nice flavoured fudge.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
The 1x heads in for Powertap was recommended by some people for the older hubs which had poor DS flange spacing. The G3 has improved flange spacing. At 17.3mm on the DS it should be good for regular lacing.... and with the large flanges there's a possiblilty of heads in lacing putting the spokes far enough out so the derailleur hits them.

Why Pillar nipples instead of Sapim? Are you using their internal nipples?

I've done front radial heads in and head out. On some hubs the spoke holes are countersunk on the outside. According to Jobst the elbow should be on that side of the flange. I've had some spokes break at the elbow when I laced those hubs the other way. So I lace those heads in. But I think that heads out looks better, even if the wheel is slightly less laterally stiff. If you do heads in, lacing them 1x doesn't look as funny (in my opinion of course).


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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:28 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:17 am 
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Posts: 380
Hi All, what are your thoughts on this lacing pattern ...

Image

thanks KL :)


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