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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Hi all,
A brief intro and stat i supose would be fitting i am a 37 year old make, 192 cm long ( over 6 ft) and currently 98.5 killos.
In my younger and mtbracing days i held a uci elite license, i weight in at 75 kilo's the last ten years i spend to much time at school and working and niw i finaly mad the choice to ind a job that allows me to ride regula again.

3 weeks ago i finished a 100 km mtb event and was happy to finish, with very litle preperation, in the half year prior to that i would have riddin a 1000 km on the road nd maybee 500 on my mtb.

I finished the ride just under seven hours, mind you 100 and roughly 1700 height meters (;
Next year i would like to finish an hour quicker.i found a group nearby that i ride with twice /tree times a week for a hard work out.
I can ride in the hills or on reasonable flat gounds, yesterday i pushed myself for a hard workout in the hills ( this is all on the road) i riad 70 km 930 height meters with 160 bpm average just undr three hours and noticed that i can sit on 170 for a reasonable time 10/15 minutes and would recover well in downhill sections,burned 2000 calories accoording to my polar i like to think that i m reasonable fit, but also fat !!

In my younger years i always got told one burns fat between 60/65% of the max hart rate but than i resently read that is relitave, meaning if you would do a harder work out you still burn more fat but also other sourches.

Who here knows more about this subject, could point me in the right direction or could give me some advice/ ideas on the subject.
Thanks, mick


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Fat burning percent is relative to exercise intensity.

As far as cycling is concerned, you will generally burn between 200-300 calories per hour of fat depending on your exercise intensity.

I found this whitepaper a few months ago that gives a good idea of how much fat is burned per hour.

http://www.uni.edu/dolgener/Advanced_Sp ... dation.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cliff notes :
Maximal fat oxidation occurs at about 60-65% of vo2max, and is about a maximum of 0.55g per min, which is 297 calories per hour (Note this is about 73% of max heartrate).

At 50% or 70% of vo2max, fat oxidation is about 0.45g per min, or 243 calories per hour.

At 40% or 80% of vo2max, fat oxidation is probably about 0.3g per min, or 162 calories per hour. Note, this wasn't tested in this whitepaper, and it's just a guess.

But really, the higher exercise intensities (70%+) also burn alot of glycogen, which relatively means that your burning more energy regardless, even though it's not as much fat as a lower intensity.

The paper also suggests that some riders can ride up to 85% of vo2max with no decrease in fat oxidation, i.e. still around 0.55g per min, or 300 cals an hour.

Cheers,
metal


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:38 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Fat vs glycogen burning at different intensities is highly variable between individuals, and also depends on an individuals fitness. The fitter you are the more power you can make without using much glycogen.

Even when riding at higher intensities when you are using glycogen and fat for energy, the kcal to replenish the glycogen after the ride has to come from somewhere. If you don't over eat, some of it comes from stored fat. So an hours intense ride burns more fat than an hours ride in the "fat burning zone".

HRM based calorie counts are completely useless and often read very high. They are for entertainment value only.

If you held a UCI elite license you know how to ride. Just go do it and eat healthy. You'll lose the fat and get fit and have fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:35 am 
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Eric and metal both thanks for your answer.
Ercic, the license was 25 kilo's ago and i understand the quickest way of being ompetitive again would be thru loosing atleast 15 kilo, that why i was wonderin how to, tho i rember i never enjoyed riddin with my hands on top of the bars and 'cruzing' along.
I might just get the agenda out again and start recording my ridding.
Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:28 am 
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I went through something similar although was not even close to good enough for a UCI license. I quit racing at age 31 and went back to motorcycles for 9 years. The last couple of that I worked at a startup and didn't do anything but work.

So I was quite out of shape when I started riding again at age 40. I weighed 40 lbs over what had been my race weight, and I was very unfit. When buying a motorcycle from a guy we had to push it around to start it. He said "you're younger than me but you're winded and I'm not". That stung; I used to be much fitter than normal people.

I started going to the gym to strength the muscles, particularly the leg muscles around the knees. I have a history of knee problems. And I could not ride successive days in a row anyhow. I had no goals other than get fitter and have fun. Eventually I thought I should do a metric century. I rode with a friend and he had to tow me the last 15 miles. Eventually I got fit enough to where I could do a century. Then a century with a lot of climbing. Then I rode the Markleeville Death Ride, a tough 125 mile/15000' ride here in California. After a few years that was not enough of a challenge. I heard about this really hard two day stage race with 29,035 feet of climbing. I was going to just do it as a citizen but the racers I'd started training with convinced me to get a license again and race it.

That was six years ago. I've done a bunch of races since then. I'm still not very good but I am having fun, which is what counts. I look at it as a long term deal, preferably for the rest of my life or as long as I can ride. Making it fun is a priority.

Anyhow, I think that you will need to both get into shape and lose weight. If you ride and eat sensibly you will lose weight as you build your base.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:55 am 
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I lost around 30 lbs since I started cycling. In my experience, its all about what you eat. Here is a few tip on losing weight without going on some weird diet:
1) only eat what you can have on one plate, don't go back for seconds.
2) minimize intake of energy dense foods, like candy, chip, rice, pasta, potatoes, cakes, bread, sugar drinks like cola and juice (yes juice, eat fruit instead. it keeps you full for longer with less energy intake. Some juices have more calories then cola. I try to follow the rule: Don't drink you calories).
3) Eat high amounts of vegetables. Around 250 gram for lunch and dinner is good. It keeps you full longer and have a low amount of energy.

I never went for the "fat burning zone". I believe you can ride as fast as you like, as long as you don't start crave sugar. I ride the bike to get a higher metabolism. Not to loose the weight when cycling. If I do, its just a bonus. I loose the weight through my day-to-day food intake.

That being said. I found that there are limits to high much I can push myself in training, without starting to crave extra energy when I'm off the bike. So when I need to loose weight I only do base training. To me it means no hardcore intervals. If I do intervals, its with 2-4 % less effort then I normally would. But it can still be done.This happens to me almost every winter. I tend to gain weight during the winter, then I use base training to loose most of the weight, then I switch to more hardcore training.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:56 am 
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I still don't understand the reluctance of eschewing hard intervals.

And I also suggest not focusing on "weight loss" per se. As mentioned above, focus on eating good food* and train smart and the weight will sort itself out.

If you are not a) training hard at times, b) eating well and c) sleeping/resting recovering well - expect your progress to be slow on all counts.

Blatant self promotion - read my log for some training ideas perhaps.


* Good food generally = fresh food like veges, fruits, lean meats, fish/seafood, nuts, seeds. Dairy is fine. Generally the less "artificial" the ingredients and the less packaged the goods the better they are.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:14 pm 
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+1 for training and letting body weight sort itself out

Forget the fat burning stuff and focus on training smart. Im not sure how performance is important to you but cycling performance and under eating/weight loss focus dont go together quite well.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Obviously fun is king! I never lost the appetite to ride , just work toke over for to long. im not under the impression that ill be a world champ one day but that doesnt mean i dont like to improve my game.im not quite sure if i need to explain the difference going uphill at 85 kilo's or at 100 killobut im sure you understand why one would like to ditch ballast !
Hence to focus on loosing fat first.there are different publications about he fat burning zone and that was the reason for posting the question.
If anything i now understand why there are different publications, works different for different people.
Thanks all for your answers and sugestons (;


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Just thought i would send in a quick update.
After reading all the replies i made it simple.
No seconds at dinner tim no matter how hungry, im staying away from high energy foods at dinner. Got myself a club license and figured with increase of ridding and degrease of intake im bound to loss weight.
I started this article 3 months ago roughly today.i lost roughly 10 kilo's i was hoovering around 100 killo's and now round 90 kilo's but best part, when i first wrote this i would get dropped on he hills b my mates, in the last month i have surprised my mates by keeping up and at 2 occasions dropped one.
I left two mates behind in a 6 hour endurance mtb race. Needless to say I'm oner the moon and secretly hope to loose another 10 kilo's (;
My coal is to do the kari cup an hour quicker next year then i did this year in feb.
thanks again


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:38 pm 
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I know this thread is a bit old, but I figure a reply is still welcome.

It is true that, generally speaking, at less than 70% of your HR max you are burning more fat than at higher intensities. However, what is really more relevant is where you are in the HR range, which is defined as HR Max - HR Min. For example, my HR Max is 192, and my HR Min is 41 (I'm 45 years old). So my HR range is 151 BPM. My aerobic threshold and anaerobic threshold (the point at which I cannot fuel my activity with oxygen, so I go "anaerobic" and I aggressively access other fuel sources) are defined by my HR Range, and to some extent my training (in other words, I may be able to slightly increase the level at which I go anaerobic, but not much - the benefits of fitness are more seen in what one can do at a given HR).

But burning glycogen vs. fat vs. any other fuel source is basically irrelevant. Any energy burning is good. If you burn all fat and no glycogen, then your unused glycogen will turn to fat. It is a question of calories in and calories burned. And riding hard will burn more calories.

In general, once you exercise for 90 minutes at 60%-70% of HR Max you will have burned through your glycogen stores and you will then be burning fat. That is why marathoners hit the wall, and it is why training for long periods of time results in weight loss. Also, training for longer forces your body to develop more mitochondria and increases capillary size, which gets oxygen to muscles better (though that isn't about weight loss).

So in the end, it gets back to basics. Ride long, ride hard (at times), recover so you can do it again, and watch your calories. There is no magic pill.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 am 
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Hi all,
Just after some help/advice on what to do next. A bit of history about me:
I was a competitive cyclist and always finishing races in the top 5 (with a few exceptions) up until about 5 years ago and my weight would hover about 85kg and very little body fat. I used to measure with fat callipers on a weekly basis and would be hover around the 6.5 – 7.5% BF.

I used to train about 250km a week and race on top of that which would take my weekly km’s up to about 300 – 350km.

About 5 years ago, we had a family tragedy (my niece passed away due to a medical f*ck up) which really gave me a kick in the guts. I was depressed and didn’t train AT ALL for some time. The bike sat in the back of my car for 8 months and I didn’t even have the motivation to simply take it out and put it in the garage. Since that has happened, I put on about 14kg’s and about 6 months ago, I started to train again so I can be where I was. This isn’t happening. I have cleaned up my diet and am riding about 250 – 300km per week. I get on the scales on a weekly basis hoping to see some decrease in weight but it’s not happening. My riding is becoming stronger and I’m not getting dropped at all by a hard hitting group of riders except up decent climbs up the hills as I’m dragging an extra 14kg around with me. On short hills I’m also fine as I can power up them.

I don’t know what to do next. I monitor my food intake and I can honestly say that I’m not over eating. Not to the point where I’m riding a fair bit and not losing anything. I’m not sure if I’m losing body fat and putting on muscle mass so that being the reason why the digits on the scales aren’t dropping.

Any help/advise appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Like other said- train for maximum riding performance- not weight loss.
Weight will not take care of itself, you must take care of the weight.
I know and also see plenty of fat guys who ride.
Weight goals are made in the kitchen. Research this and come up with a dietary program
that works for you.
Then you will have both- bike fitness and the weight you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:00 pm 
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boots2000 wrote:
Like other said- train for maximum riding performance- not weight loss.
Weight will not take care of itself, you must take care of the weight.
I know and also see plenty of fat guys who ride.
Weight goals are made in the kitchen. Research this and come up with a dietary program
that works for you.
Then you will have both- bike fitness and the weight you want.


I understand what you're saying but I'll be a lot quicker up the hills with 15 or kg's lighter.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:51 pm 
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I am not so sure that you did understand.
I wrote that you must take care of the weight.
What I meant by the entire post is that you need to figure out a diet that will allow you to achieve you weight goals even if you were riding zero miles.
Miles at low intensity are not the key to weight loss.
Find an eating program that works well for you.
slick1 wrote:
boots2000 wrote:
Like other said- train for maximum riding performance- not weight loss.
Weight will not take care of itself, you must take care of the weight.
I know and also see plenty of fat guys who ride.
Weight goals are made in the kitchen. Research this and come up with a dietary program
that works for you.
Then you will have both- bike fitness and the weight you want.


I understand what you're saying but I'll be a lot quicker up the hills with 15 or kg's lighter.


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Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:51 pm 


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