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 Post subject: Is Cervelo R5 a noodle?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 494
Hi,

I have a new Cervelo R5 VWD, size 56. I am 185cm high, 92kg (winter weight).

From the very begining I feel a lack of head tube stiffness. It really surprised me.
Today I rode Pinarello DOGMA and I definatelly had to admit that R5 is a REAL NOODLE.

I really cannot understand how it is possible, that such well rated frame lacks stiffness at HT area.
Anybody else having similar experiences?
Did anybody rode R5 and Dogma? How did it felt in comparisson?

Thank You.


Last edited by Permon on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
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Location: NYC
Perceived "headtube stiffness" is a function of many factors, including stiffness of stem and bar, steertube and also front wheel and most importantly, proper adjustment of all the above. For example, if the headset bearings are not properly compressed and adjusted it might translate into a sloppy handling front end...same with front wheel bearings. Also, if the two bikes you are comparing are not equipped with the same cockpit and wheels, then there is other noise/variables that could account for said "perceived stiffness."

The single most important improvement, IMO, of 2011 and newer R-Series Cervelo frames (compared to pre-2011 models) is the new tapered headtube and steer tube and larger bottom bearing on headset. Tracking and handling of the front end of my 2011 R5 compared to earlier models is night an day.

I have not compared my R5 to a Dogma, but I doubt it would be a "real noodle" in a head to head comparison.

EM3

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:41 pm 
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R5 set up:
FSA stem and bars
Hyperon wheels

Dogma set up:
MOST integrated cockpit
BORA wheels

Actually, I doubt the set up plays a role in this case.

R5 behaves very very nervous.
Even drinking while riding by one hand is an artistic performance...
I really hate the way it rides.My previous R3 (2007) behaved more stable.

The headset bearings dont have any play.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Strange: as far as I know the following are the geometry differences:
1. Headtube longer
2. Seattube longer

Angles are the same.

Am I missing something?

The Dogma weights at least 250 grams more for the frame alone, so that provides a lot of beef to engineer the frame. But the R3-R5 comparison is interesting.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:59 pm 
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The MOST Integrated bar/ stem will really help the front end stiffness. My Cinelli RAM makes any frame feel stiffer.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Permon wrote:
R5 behaves very very nervous.
Even drinking while riding by one hand is an artistic performance...
I really hate the way it rides.My previous R3 (2007) behaved more stable.


Why do you think that's a HT stiffness issue?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:14 pm 
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The way I usually test HT stiffness is:
Ridding by one hand and trying to move my hand from left to right.

The R5s front end is rattling like 7cm from left to right like a noodle.
The Dogmas front end was even hard to move from left to right.

It seems like the R5s top tube and down tube are so weak that it cannot handle tgis "dumb test"

Also riding the R5 down the hill by one hand is kind of scary?
I am hopeless.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:16 pm 
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wingguy wrote:
Permon wrote:
R5 behaves very very nervous.
Even drinking while riding by one hand is an artistic performance...
I really hate the way it rides.My previous R3 (2007) behaved more stable.


Why do you think that's a HT stiffness issue?


What do You think the issue is?
Thank You.


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 Post subject: Is Cervelo R5 a noodle?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Posts: 383
Location: London, United Kingdom
I don't think it's a stiffness (or lack of) issue.

If the bike feels unstable while you are drinking and have only 1 hand on the bars...well, I think there is an underlying problem here.

My money is on the headset, I would have it checked (rebuilt).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Image

Old R3, I think:
Image

I was wrong about angles being the same! HT is steeper.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Check your wheel bearings are properly pre-loaded? Try to wobble the front wheel back forth and see how much it moves? FWIW my R5 is rock solid stable.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:27 pm 
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http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/ ... d_256023/5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FWIW

What stem length you running? That affects steering twitchiness...shorter stem, more twitch, longer stem, not so much.

I can tell you, if you want a stiff HT, get a Scott Foil..you will regret it. I switched to carbon bars to dampen the ride, helped to take the sting out of the ride.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Also don't JUST check for play in your headset. Tighten the fork until it just starts bind up and then little by little back it off until it turns freely.

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 Post subject: Is Cervelo R5 a noodle?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
Ooooohh, a 56......it's crap, just send it here.

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http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=125962


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Permon wrote:
The R5s front end is rattling like 7cm from left to right like a noodle.


What do you mean? What is moving 7 cm? If you mean the bike is staying bolt upright and the bars are flexing up to 7cm from horizontal I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is not happening unless your headtube is broken.



(What do I think the handling problem is? Some combination of frame size, fit, stem length/bar reach and weight distribution.)


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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:55 pm 


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