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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:31 am 
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i wonder where the exaliths went on this? :o

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:55 am 
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Location: Natovi Landing
airwise wrote:
sawyer wrote:

My point is they are overpriced, likely not very aero, not very light, have the same old Mavic hubs.

As a number of other posters have said: second rate/vanity wheels etc. etc.

And so on first look they don't appear great value at all

Which is all entirely legitimate commentary for a topic on a new wheelset on WWs


OK let's look at this in detail

Claimed weight 1545g (Zipp 303 cc 1475g -actual 1579g)

Price €2000 (Zipp 303 cc €2528)

Aero? Nothing to back up your statement yet both Zipp and Enve did poorly in last year's Tour tests - the only independent source of data that we have.

Hubs? Mavic hubs feel sticky to you. To me, they last years without attention and I do not notice any watts being lost due to their subjective stickiness. I have Mavics still running smoothly on their original bearings that are seven to ten years old.

You did leave off stiffness which is undoubtedly where Mavic will trounce the likes of Zipp and Enve. The French company would not release a wheel with the figures attributed to the American hoops. They never have AFAIK.

So it strikes me that you are incorrect on two counts, just guessing on one, and offering up a subjective opinion on another.

Does that seem a "legitimate commentary" to you?

I'd agree about vanity wheels though. Anyone riding carbon clinchers does so for vanity reasons IME, certainly in the mountains they do.

PS. Say Zipp backwards and it's the sound your innertubes make briefly as you descend an Alpine col in high season :wink:


I'd rather ride tubs in the mountains.

Come on airwise, you don't accept Mavic's claimed weights They'll probably weigh 1700g?

There's enough data on Zipp wheels aero performance from various sources and on the importance of smooth tyre/rim profile (which the narrow Mavic rim will not give with a 23mm tyre). Perhaps Mavic has used their Ksyrium experience to inform the new rim shape?

On the hubs - Mavics don't spin well. Agree this area is necessarily a bit subjective as there's little data, but I'd trust my experience and the experience of others that loose cup and cone type wheels tend to spin better than the cartridge/bushing type arrangement Mavic specializes in. I always felt like I mysteriously had the brakes on with Mavics.

Stiffness I will grant you the Mavics might do well on. If they are really stiff then a lot of the rest can be forgiven (putting aside the vanity wheel point).


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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:55 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:20 am 
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sawyer wrote:
Come on airwise, you don't accept Mavic's claimed weights They'll probably weigh 1700g?


Just to be fair, my SLR's and SE's both weigh 35g per wheel more than claimed, so 70g a pair. That would bring them in at 1615g vs 1579g for the Zipp. So 36g (2%) heavier and €500 (20%) cheaper. Difficult to accept the allegations of their being heavy and overpriced really.

As for the hubs, well I'm sure if there was a real problem rather than a placebo one, Mavic would have addressed it in the past decade, given the reliance of numerous ProTour riders on them over the years. Hell, they even won a couple of Grand Tours on them in 2010. Maybe it was the drugs :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Actually, Mavic's Cosmic Carbone Sl and SLRs had really good aero numbers in one of the tests - I want to say Tour, but it was a few years ago. So, I have to assume that the aerodynamics of these aren't bad despite the narrower profile.

And for as much crap as Mavic wheels get - they due tend to be heavy, their aluminum wheels tend to be not at all aerodynamic and they are expensive - Mavic produces generally solid wheelsets that hold up to almost anything (First gen. R-sys excluded). Also, their hubs are pretty serviceable.

Finally, this wheelset, in my opinion, seems built to cater entirely to the growing number of people who are most concerned with how their bike looks. It offers the ease of clinchers with a deep sectioned, black rim that has a black brake track. And it seems like Mavic has figured out a way to deal with the issue of heat build on carbon clincher break tracks. So, from that perspective, I consider this a success.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Who doesn't use cartridge bearings "that Mavic specialise in", other than Shimano and Campagnolo?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
airwise wrote:
sawyer wrote:
Come on airwise, you don't accept Mavic's claimed weights They'll probably weigh 1700g?


Just to be fair, my SLR's and SE's both weigh 35g per wheel more than claimed, so 70g a pair. That would bring them in at 1615g vs 1579g for the Zipp. So 36g (2%) heavier and €500 (20%) cheaper. Difficult to accept the allegations of their being heavy and overpriced really.

As for the hubs, well I'm sure if there was a real problem rather than a placebo one, Mavic would have addressed it in the past decade, given the reliance of numerous ProTour riders on them over the years. Hell, they even won a couple of Grand Tours on them in 2010. Maybe it was the drugs :wink:


airwise ... see VeloNews review. They note that Mavic themselves claim these new hoops are less aero than 303s ... meaning they are probably quite a bit less aero given manufacturers' form on such issues ... :wink:

And that the lightest 303 clinchers actual they weighed were 1473g.

On the hubs ... I hear the Mavic sponsored pro teams ceramic up theirs ... :wink:

To be honest though it's less about vs. other carbon clinchers for me. We'll see how they turn out, but with the additional weight, inferior aerodynamics and hubs to 303s I don't think they will be a class leader ... though the class itself is full of overpriced vanity wheels to avoid IMO.

And yes I won't slate all their products ... they are tough and CCUs are standouts.


Last edited by sawyer on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:24 pm 
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milroy wrote:
Who doesn't use cartridge bearings "that Mavic specialise in", other than Shimano and Campagnolo?



Zipp.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:40 pm 
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sawyer wrote:
.

And yes I won't slate all their products ... they are tough and CCUs are standouts.


Well that's a relief.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:38 am 
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Location: Wichita Falls
I was always more than happy with my old Cosmic Carbone Premium SL's, I only sold them because I could get some, at the time EDGE, now ENVE, rims for fairly cheap.

The Carbones, while heavy, were a very fast wheelset. They hold their speed extraordinarily (weight I know), they are stiff, brake great, super durable, and fairly aero. What else, other than weight could you want? After I sold my EDGE wheelset, I actually came into a super deal on the new Cosmic Carbone SLE. This wheelset is everything the old Carbone was and more. It's lighter, same stiffness I'd say, same aerodynamics (I mean, can you actually tell the difference sometimes??), way better braking, looks better....it's pretty much a Carbone on steroids. If you want a bit lighter wheelset and a little more of a "cool factor" you could always go with the SLR.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:38 am 
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I think that is the point. These wheels are somewhere between the SLR/SLE Cosmics and the full carbon clinchers both in construction and performance. As they haven't attempted to release any, I'd assume that Mavic don't believe in full carbon clinchers (like many on this forum) and these are a pretty good attempt to solve some of those issues.

I thought the Madfibre construction of sandwiching an alloy rim between stressed carbon sidewalks fairly innovative. Mavic have used similar technology but with amore traditional spoke system. And if these Mavic wheels are aero old school, then the Madfibres are even older.

Sawyer in which hubs are Zipp not running sealed cartridge bearings? They clearly state they do in the current 88/188 hubs. And while Zipp may have worked out their hubs of late, historically their hubs have been fairly poor. To say that anyone running Mavic wheels has no clue about cycling is pretty arrogant.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 pm 
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What bearings would the Hubs use if one wanted to Upgrade to Ceramics?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:18 pm
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What happend to Mavic Exalith rims? Why didn't Mavic use it on the 40C's? :noidea:

I think that Mavic makes good wheels but the have to focus on 100% quality allways and service. The quality is not always as good as it should be and the service and repair department is slow in Europe.
The wheels look slick and sexy imho. I think that Mavic is 20% too expensive for the quality you get.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:37 pm 
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These wheels make no sense at all to me. The price is ludicrous, the aluminum core / plastic braking surface design seems like the worst of all worlds, 1,545g is nothing to write home about (especially at this price) and the 19MM width V-shaped profile is hardly cutting edge. Don't get it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Location: Seattle
I think this has to be a joke.


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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:25 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
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Location: Natovi Landing
Hard to see the case for them yes.

The only aspect on which they excel is aesthetics ...

... or maybe not as they scream "had" ...

:lol: :lol:


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