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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Well let me set the scene. I have enetered a local XC series and I time trial. It's the time trials I am taking a bit more seriously. My bike for TT's is not a TT bike just a road bike with no adaptions and I do not want to make any. I simply want to improve my times through developing my fittness. I do not have a power meter and I cannot afford to get one either.

The only power metered "rides" I have done is on a Watt bike session last week. There I managaed an average 653W over 250m and 249W over 5000m, the last one had my lungs comming out of my chest. So alot to improve I think.
Last year TT's were a record a week which meant lots of points but I started from a low base. The bike I road was a 1980 Alan Competizione with everything period but the tubs. I know this is not the fastest bike in the world but I think the limitation was the rider.

My best time for the Lavenham 10 was 28mins15secs which was about 2 minutes faster than at the begining of the season (and I started that late)

So in preperation I have increased my sunday ride length to about 70-80 miles (sometimes more) and I have started this week a local hilly loop of just 8.6miles, which I treat as a TT and try to do that as fast as possible. However I can only do that twice a week in the eveneings (tonight I did not leave until 8:50pm) and when it dark, dizzley/foggy yo have to hold back a bit as the roads round here a pretty shit. I did it in 27 minutes and there are a fair bit of climbing.

So whithin those rides what can I do to make the training more effective. I do try harder on the climbs so my legs burn hoping this will help but my knowledge of physiology is somewhat lacking.

For the XC racing I just need to ride XC more than I do but last year I found it was not my technical skills that were lacking (well they wee sufficent for the courses I rode) it was my fittness.

Help.

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Last edited by bm0p700f on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:30 pm 
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How much do you weight? How long have you been riding seriously?

Its hard to make recommendations without knowing details and history,

On the basis you are not a super light weight and given the watts you got there, I'd say about any moderate to hard riding will improve your fitness. How do you ride during your long ride on the flats? Try holding a moderate effort throughout your ride, something that has your legs working all the time but is sustainable. You could try hitting the hills a bit harder. As for the loop, going hard all the way from start to end seems an appropriate approach given it gives you arround 25-30min of threshold work.

XC racing is all about going all out from start to end, scaled to the duration of the race, so it obviously included a pacing component. A high FTP, good anaerobic power repeatability and short vo2 power will help.

You might want to think about structured workout instead of distance based workout. Intervals with appropriate durations could be a good start to gaining some decent fitness.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:14 pm 
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Well I am 79kg. I am not trying to lose any more as I am 6ft1. I have been riding for 13 years week in week out. In 2007 I started road riding previously it all been XC riding. Only in the past year have been riding seriously in that I want to be competitive. I have raced XC on and off before but last years time trials got me hooked on those and made me determined to do better in the XC series.

The long sunday ride is is club ride and is fixed. I have a pass to get out from 8 am to 2-3pm and I will use it or I will loose it.

You will have to explain intervals to me as I do not properly understand them.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:52 pm 
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I was asking weight to have a general idea on how strong you were to assess current level.

Intervals are just a way to focus effort targeting particular qualities/energy system by manupulating work duration, rest duration and repetitions.

So for someone who want to become good at TTs, you could focus on plenty of effort duration and rest combos. Without going into details and proper planning you could do the following.

Let base intensity on a rating of perceived exertion scale from 1 to 10, 10 being puking in the bucket and 5 being somewhat hard effort.

2 x 20min at 7-8/10 with 5-10min rest, easy pace, inbetween.
2-3 x 15min at 7-8/10 with 5-10min rest, easy pace, inbetween

4-6 x 4min at 9/10 with 4min rest
4-5 x 5min at 9/10 with 5min rest

and we could keep going untill tomorrow like that. Maybe run a little search, as there are plenty of info over the net on the topic.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:31 am 
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So I think I understand now. Ride as hard as I can for 20 mins and then take it easy and roll for 10 minutes and do it all again. That is quite different from what I am doing at the moment.

This essentially means doing two laps of my training route if I make it a bit shorter. Or do you mean do all of those interval options in sucession in one training session. One set sounds doable all of them would make me sick and take more time than I have.

Tomorrow night I will have a go.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:41 am 
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no not all of them in a session, choose one.

Careful, the longer efforts (even the 5min) have an important pacing component. If you fry the first 2min then the remaining 18min of a 20min effort will be 1) overly painful 2) sub-optimal on a power production perspective.

Try to keep it as constant as possible, focus on getting good work in. The shorter efforts I find are better done on climbs (though less TT specific) because you can sustain better overall power versus doing them on the flats with wind, etc.

I would also be careful about rest days etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:24 am 
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Riding a random interval workout is like building a wheel with a random spoking pattern, # of spokes etc without knowing the rider's weight or intended use.

You will get more out of your training if you have a plan that works towards defined goals and objectives.

Friel's Training Bible book is the classic reference for figuring all that stuff out. You don't have to have a PM to make a periodicized training plan or to follow it although it does have its uses.

One thing to keep in mind is that the requirements of your two types of events are different- steady state effort for TTs vs bursty effort for XC. So your training may want to change depending on which type of event is more important to you in the near future.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:39 am 
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though it sounds like the OP could benefit from pretty much any kind of structured training at the moment, especially if the numbers he stated were hard efforts for him.

I race XC, my winter training is far from bursty, lots of steady efforts to build FTP, you need the adaptations before you can think of very specific work and even if XC racing is very stochastic a high FTP will trump it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:44 am 
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Thanks. That 249W over 5000km on a watt bike was a pretty hard effort but no enough to make me sick.
I will stick to 2x20mins intervals. Pacing my self is the easy part, it is the one thing I am actually good at. the 2x20mins will allow me to do my training lap pedal round the village for 5 minutes and do it all over again then come home and collapse.

Sonds like a plan and I have a lot too do.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 pm 
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the 2x20 and 3x15 will essentially work the same things. You can also throw a 1x30min once in a while.

Dont forget to mix things up a bit, 4-6x4min, long rides, longer tempo efforts like 2x30min or 1x60min at a pace a little below the 2x20 pace


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Mixing in 30 second to 3 minute intervals is important in all programs, in my experience. They really train the VO2 max and anaerobic systems that are valuable in races of all durations, just as devinci said above. Guys doing 24 hour races still focus a lot on these sorts of efforts. I recommend mixing them in as the competition approaches on as these systems train easier and are harder to maintain than the aerobic systems. You'll always miss out by focusing on only intervals of a certain length.


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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:54 pm 


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