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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:55 am 
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I mostly ride for the joy of it, but would like to challenge my PBs in a few hillclimbs and the occasional TT. They are typically 40min-1h efforts.

My intervals last season were 2x20min (this year I want to try 3x15min) and 3x3min efforts, with some success, albeit not as good as I had been hoping for.

This year I want to do some more training during the lunch break, and have been wondering if 10x2min hill repeats could help me, if put in the mix. I have a hill nearby and could fit the workout in.

Sorry for being quite vague. I don't want to make a science project out of my training, so I'm not using a PM unit. I'm comfortable doing consistent intervals by speed (uphill) and HR, back in time when track running I only had time and distance either.
Thanks for any advice.

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Last edited by HillRPete on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:55 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:23 am 
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If you're already doing some short punchy stuff like the 3x3mins then there would be no call for anything shorter given your goals.

More longer climbing below race pace and slightly shorter above race pace could be the go.

Need more details about your training before making any solid recommendations.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:31 am 
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Cheers Tape, much appreciated, as always. I'm only starting to make plans slowly now.

Would you see the 10x2min (20min effective) to elicit similar adaptations as the 3x3 (only 9min "load")?

There was one short hillclimb, just under 15min, where I thought I benefited from the 3x3s, but in the longer ones I had hoped for more, that's why I'm pondering to shift from 2x20 and 3x3 to 3x15 and 10x2. (But to be honest, some overzealous pacing was also in play with one of the more disappointing results)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:10 pm 
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It would depend on how the 10x2min were executed.

If doing them with a 30sec rest interval (RI) , for example, they would draw more and more from the aerobic system. If the RI was longer it would allow more recovery and more of the anaerobic contributions. Not useful for your particular circumstance described.

For a particular event anything more than ~1min, and definitely longer than 4mins will be determined by aerobic power. Hence all the things that go to building FTP will be the main focus. Main three ways to do this, push up the FTP, pull up the FTP or the sweet spot. All three can work, and to a point all three should be used.

Push - the traditional concept of base then building on that and then a bit of speed/taper etc.
Pull - the reverse periodisation model - shorter harder stuff, raise FTP, then go long (good for those in cold climates!)
Sweet Spot - just hitting volume in the sweet spot range to drive FTP (wattage groups love this one).

There are lots of other theories and methods that are used, and sometimes used well.

The key thing to remember are the three key parts of ANY training - stimulus -> recovery -> adaptation. You need all three. Otherwise you're wasting your time. In a lot of riders I often see the first part done well. The next two... not so much. Some rest well, but under-eat, so the adaptation doesn't take place, they don't *recover*. And if you don't recover, and you introduce more stimuli you just start to go down, down, down.

...actually I don't think you asked about any of that, but I like to rant about these things. :thumbup:

As you mentioned pacing is also crucial. Starting too hard will kill any TT, especially those of the uphill variety as there is no respite, no coasting and wind is less of a factor, hence as soon as the power drops, the speed drops. HR is unreliable in this manner to start so speed will have to be a proxy for power when you are practicing. The start should feel easy. Then settle into a goal pace for the interval/climb and then hold on for dear life.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Thanks again, Tape. Much obliged.

Had not mentioned rest interval, great you bring that up. Usually I'm doing the short intervals symmetrically, like 3x(3+3)min because they are the easiest to execute. I'm doing all my training outside, and also I like to think/calculate as little as possible, so I can focus the best.

I'll definitely try the 10x(2+0.5)min once the snow is gone from the road :-)
Would you recommend to do them to exhaustion on the 10th repeat?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:41 pm 
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The 2min with 2min recoveries could help build top end aerobic power. They could help raide vo2max, although not the best choice of effort duration for doing so. Depending on your particular vo2 kinetics you could hit vo2max for a fee seconds during each efforts. The 2min recoveries wont be long enough to allow full anaerobic system replenishment. Not sure you could handle 10x though, depending on target power.

For a TT focus, I'd choose anyother duration though. 6x4min are my perfonnal fav at the moment :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:04 am 
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What percentage of FTP is sweet spot?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:33 pm 
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russianbear wrote:
What percentage of FTP is sweet spot?


88-94% of FTP

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:40 pm 
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sweet spot isnt a zone per se

its a concept, where you get the best bang for your buck in term of intensity and duration tradeoff within a workout and an itensity/duration you can train at day in day out

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I have done some 10x(2+1:30ish) lately, and liking it way better than 3x(3+3) as my highest intensity exercise. The 3x3, as hard as it is, it's over quickly, and doing it regularly 1x per week, I didn't really improve after a few weeks. With the 10x2, while not going to total and entire exhaustion on each repetition, I get fairly close to it, and I can get a nice progression in training. Also it really pays off in the 2x20s when I go into the red over a hill, I feel that I'm recovering faster when pushing on.

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 Post subject: Training plan critique
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:56 pm 
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[Merged from other thread by mods]

My schedule is primarily driven by work and family commitments, but if you have any input on potential improvements, that would be great. Main target for me are TTs (also uphill ones) in the 30-60min range. But really it's mostly about getting the best out of my limited time.

Mon: 10x(2+1)min
Tue: 2x20min flat or 3x15min uphill
Wed: --
Thu: 3+h at a reasonable pace
Fri: 1x40ish min uphill
Sat or Sun: 50-80km at medium pace, sometimes a big ride

Thanks in advance.

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Last edited by HillRPete on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:31 pm 
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maybe you could substitute the monday session with longer efforts uphills, something along the lines of 4-5 minutes at 110% of FTP with equal rest time. I usually aim at 15-25min of total work time.

It would make a good aerobic workout and could contribute to lifting things up a little.

Also, depending on current intensity, you could make friday 2 x 30min uphill at 90% of FTP, quite manageable and pretty good workout for your key events. Working for 2 x 30min uphill below FTP would also contribute to train your pacing strategy and feel.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Thanks devinci. Will try the 4-5min ones, but they are hard to pace (no PM).
Do you think an 1x60 around 90% would work too, in place of the 2x30? Really liking the thought of a sub-FTP workout to complement the 2x20/3x15.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:10 pm 
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if i did a vo2 max one day and then a threshold workout on the following the day the threshold workout would suffer. even with a day of rest, JRA or sweetspot between the 2 i still don't know if i could get to 105% of ftp for both intervals. so yeah, by doing them back to back maybe you're not going to get all the quality you could possibly get from doing those sessions on a weekly basis.


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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:10 pm 


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