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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:36 am 
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I too have some Ksyries, but the sludgy hubs have seen 'em demoted to next winter, replaced by Zonda's.


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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:36 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:40 am 
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Location: Brighton, UK
Anything is better than ksyrium sl's! :lol: Now seriously I think they are a very overpriced wheelset. They are stiff and in all other respects they under perform.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
ticou wrote:
I too have some Ksyries, but the sludgy hubs have seen 'em demoted to next winter, replaced by Zonda's.



A shrewd move! Zondas are underrated and under-priced vs. competitors.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:00 pm 
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I agree! £251 for me zonda's. Nearly £430 for me sludgies.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Location: Ruidoso, NM
Tokyo Drifter wrote:
I am completely baffled by this strange 'mystique' that wheel builders try to build around themselves and the consumers who think that wheel building is actually difficult to do. It is a basic mechanical task.


If you think that sticking in the spokes and making the wheel roundish is all it takes, then yes... anyone can do that.

But after 6 years of building wheels full time I still take 3 hrs to build a wheel. That is to make sure it stays true and lasts as long as possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Tokyo Drifter wrote:
I'm going to put it out there that wheelbuilding is not an art and that there are, in fact, hundreds, if not thousands of perfectly capable bike mechanics in Australia who can perform this basic mechanical task.


There are thousands of people here in the US who are perfectly capable of painting, so does that automatically not make it an art?

The fact that you don't think wheel building is an art simply shows your obvious lack of experience. As Ron said, anyone can assemble a wheel. But getting uniformity and consistency throughout the system is a whole different story.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Tokyo Drifter wrote:
as an aggressive rider will generally need to replace rims a few times a season.


An agressive rider, or a "capable" builder? I beat the crap out of my builds (both MTB and road) and I rarely ever replace my rims, and I weigh 220 lbs. If mechanics are replacing their rims that much, they aren't selecting parts or building properly (or both).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:09 pm 
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WNW 3 hours to do a build. That makes me feel better as I also take that ammont of time I think. I never measre it though. My standard answer when asked how long it takes to build a wheel is it takes as long as it take to make it as perfect as possible it also the truth.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:16 am 
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I actually like my Ksyrium ES wheels.....guess I'm in the minority. I like my Reynolds Assaults as well so I may be weird....I dunno. Would be cool to build wheels though.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:42 am 
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Hi,

Quote:
There are thousands of people here in the US who are perfectly capable of painting, so does that automatically not make it an art?


More a craft than an art if you'd asked me but fair enough. :lol:

My guess is that it would take a machine about ten minutes to piece a Ksyrium together.

People mentioned they are're stiff. I don't know about the latest iterations on the never ending theme but the early versions were just stiff.....in the wrong places.

As for building wheels, (I confess I take like 4 hours or more to get them close to the standards my tools allow) I read that there are tools available (digital, electronic, not too sure what) that allow a wheelbuilder to lace up wheels that are close to perfection. According to the same journalist it makes quite a difference to what even a good wheelbuilder can do with conventional tools.
Admittedly the article I read was surrounded by the same level of mystique you'd usually expect when someone drivels over Cancellara's latest bearing tune ups and so forth....

Sorry for the OT, just thought I'd mention it. ;)

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Last edited by fdegrove on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:52 am 
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sawyer wrote:
we should start a "Ksyrium amnesty" thread where everyone owns up to mis-deeds and can hand in their hoops without fear of reprisals

As opposed to the trashing they cop on here, every time they are mentioned?

JKS wrote:
The first time I came to a break in the shielding trees on the climb I literally got blown off the edge of the road onto the shoulder (I wasn't ready for it). You had to lean sideways into these gusts when they came to maintain your line and not put yourself into the path of 100kph traffic. Conditions were the same on the descent. Oh, and I forgot to mention it was raining! Ok, so maybe not the typical conditions. It was enough to rattle my confidence a bit. That said, in fair weather with the rush of going downhill fast, I don't think about it in the moment! (Yes, I'm definitely low on the drops, but I'll keep the technique pointers in mind, thanks)

Nothing to do with the wheels.

Conditions and technique.

Try living down my way. Wind originates here, I'm certain of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:42 am 
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Location: somewere floating between here and the other side
48 holes jump wheel i supose 20" is also a slightly different story than a lightweight 20 hole 28" roadwheel ! None the less its good to be able to repair your own wheel so if the fella is keen to learn we can only support that (;

I never had mavics, never owned a prefeb wheel until i bought i superfly but made new wheels for it quickly, i think every self respecting bike mechanic ( or ex mechanic) should build his own wheels.

How come no one has mentioned freewheel trouble's yet ?

Im still running a set of chorus hubs from 2000 as my main wheelset, not ubber light but smooth cheap(ish) good looking, and still going ! Just put new open pro on them and there good for somemore years, cant get ambrossio excellence here they would be my first choice.

Building hope on stans 340 for the missus as soon as i get the spokes in (;


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:11 am 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:

An agressive rider, or a "capable" builder? I beat the crap out of my builds (both MTB and road) and I rarely ever replace my rims, and I weigh 220 lbs. If mechanics are replacing their rims that much, they aren't selecting parts or building properly (or both).


Both. The shop I work in has a 2x DH national champion, a few guys who have ridden redbull rampage finals etc. The typical rim that is used is a Ringle MTX33, which is pretty much the reference point for all other DH rims. Most xc guys will run rims that are effectively consumable - podium mmx/alpines - the rebuilds are not a result of poor construction but a deliberately underbuilt wheel.

Quote:
How come no one has mentioned freewheel trouble's yet ?


You can service them with $1 worth of oil and 5 mins worth of time. If the bushing craps itself (generally about 15,000km lifespan) you can get aftermarket bearings which ad a little weight but only cost ~$40.

Quote:
My guess is that it would take a machine about ten minutes to piece a Ksyrium together.


I am under the impression that Ksyrium Elite and higher wheels are hand built and tensioned in France. Not 100% sure but I think velonews or someone did a factory tour a few years ago.

Quote:
The fact that you don't think wheel building is an art simply shows your obvious lack of experience.


I have built or repaired probably around 2-3,000 wheels in the last ~8 years.

Quote:
But after 6 years of building wheels full time I still take 3 hrs to build a wheel.


I honestly hope that this is a joke. From spoke calc. to a finished wheel should take half that at the absolute most! We charge 1 hour of labour for a standard wheel, 90mins for a mavic UST rim. I hope you're getting paid by the hour!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:40 am 
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Location: Ruidoso, NM
Tokyo Drifter wrote:
the rebuilds are not a result of poor construction but a deliberately underbuilt wheel.


Doesn't sound underbuilt really. Sounds like they bottom out the tire so hard that the rim dents. The rim is trash then regardless. At any rate, I'm not surprised that no one takes great care in putting those together.

Quote:
I honestly hope that this is a joke. From spoke calc. to a finished wheel should take half that at the absolute most! We charge 1 hour of labour for a standard wheel, 90mins for a mavic UST rim. I hope you're getting paid by the hour!


Whatever. I'm sure you don't do everything I do, and I'm also not in a hurry. Takes about the same amount of time now as the first one I built 25 years ago, but it's much better quality when I'm done. I've only tried to see what I could do to make it better... not see how quick I could get it over with.

And I most certainly don't get paid "by the hour". I don't even get paid to post on the internet...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:13 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
JKS wrote:
The first time I came to a break in the shielding trees on the climb I literally got blown off the edge of the road onto the shoulder (I wasn't ready for it). You had to lean sideways into these gusts when they came to maintain your line and not put yourself into the path of 100kph traffic. Conditions were the same on the descent. Oh, and I forgot to mention it was raining! Ok, so maybe not the typical conditions. It was enough to rattle my confidence a bit. That said, in fair weather with the rush of going downhill fast, I don't think about it in the moment! (Yes, I'm definitely low on the drops, but I'll keep the technique pointers in mind, thanks)


Quote:
[i]Nothing to do with the wheels.

Conditions and technique.

Try living down my way. Wind originates here, I'm certain of it.
Quote:


To be fair fat bladed spokes do affect handling in cross-winds.

I often go to Tenerife at Christmas and do a few days training on Mt Teide. For those who don't know it, it's not your average col ... out of the door at sea level I start on a 43km, 2300m climb, almost three times the height gain of Alpe D'Huez, and that mountain out in the atlantic can get angry :wink:

After being blown around a couple of years ago I've given up on fat spoked shamals over there and now ride only zondas or 202s. Makes enough difference to be significant, even if, as you say, it's mostly technique and confidence.


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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:13 pm 


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