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 Post subject: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 pm
Posts: 83
Ok, so is it considered bad form to mix front and rear hubs on a wheelset? I was lurking on fairwheel's page and was thinking about the tune front hub with a farsports 38 on the front. I have not decided on the rear hub yet but was thinking of a farsports 50 rim. Tubular set likely a 20/28 with sapim c-xrays. I was 300 lbs on December 9th. I am 260 now with a target weight of 210-220. I have not had the chance to get hooked up to a power meter, but well... I break rear wheels/hubs. I currently have Spinergy Xaero lites. They hold up great, are super comfy, but do not transfer power well. Also they are like spinning a fan at 24mph and up. These will likely be my first aero wheels(getting Zipps at a later date). Any hub suggestions? Soul? I Really prefer straight pull stuff. Thanks-David

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2311
Location: eh?
It's not bad form if it is the best combo for a certain application. Wouldn't be my choice though.

HOWEVER, you are wasting time and money. At your weight you need Dura Ace or similar hubs and a heavy duty alloy rim with 32 spokes. I think you will also do better with DT Comps instead of CX Rays.

I weigh around 190 - 200 lbs and while I can and do use high end, low spoke carbon tubulars, the durability really suffers compared to a heavy duty build. I am not just talking about spokes and rims. You will also obliterate the ratchet mechanism on lighter hubs. Not on day one but sooner than you will like.

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:35 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 pm
Posts: 83
I should mention that I will not be using these wheels untill I am 220. Also Shimano is out, and so is any box style rim.

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1717
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
teufelhunden222 wrote:
Ok, so is it considered bad form to mix front and rear hubs on a wheelset?


Maybe if you try to follow "the Rules" it might be. Otherwise no one will care. I've ridden many thousands of miles with mismatched hubs or even hubs and rims and no one has said a word.

"power transfer" is, in most cases, a myth. Almost all flexing systems on bicycles are springs, returning the majority of the energy that is put into them.

At your size and if you are breaking wheels, I do recommend carbon rims or light weight wheel builds. Build for what you are now not the rider you think you will be in the future. When you get there, re-evaluate. But even at 210 you are going to need heavier wheel builds than I do at 145. However, even with an extra 300g in your wheels, your bike and wheels are going to be a much smaller percentage of your weight than my bike is of mine. You can afford a few hundred extra grams to prevent being stuck on the side of the road.


Last edited by eric on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:12 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5786
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
"power transfer" is, in most cases, a myth. Almost all flexing systems on bicycles are springs, returning the majority of the energy that is put into them.


As you said, the majority of the input but not all of it.
IOW, a spring would serve no purpose if it did NOT lose energy. It's simply physics.

Ciao, ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 pm
Posts: 83
Allow to restate, I do not want the rear wheel to feel spongy when I am sprinting or climbing a grade. I want it to accelerate.

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 Post subject: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:49 am 
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in the industry
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Luxembourg / Sweden
It's the 'bicycle as perfect spring' theory that is a pop science internet forum myth, power transfer is very real.
How do you propose the flex in a wheel f.i. is returned as propulsive power?

/a

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 338
teufelhunden222 wrote:
Ok, so is it considered bad form to mix front and rear hubs on a wheelset? I was lurking on fairwheel's page and was thinking about the tune front hub with a farsports 38 on the front. I have not decided on the rear hub yet but was thinking of a farsports 50 rim. Tubular set likely a 20/28 with sapim c-xrays. I was 300 lbs on December 9th. I am 260 now with a target weight of 210-220. I have not had the chance to get hooked up to a power meter, but well... I break rear wheels/hubs. I currently have Spinergy Xaero lites. They hold up great, are super comfy, but do not transfer power well. Also they are like spinning a fan at 24mph and up. These will likely be my first aero wheels(getting Zipps at a later date). Any hub suggestions? Soul? I Really prefer straight pull stuff. Thanks-David

Hi teufelhunden222, yes absolutely, you could try the farsports wheels, and you really should be riding at least a 25mm Rear tyre (so that your rear tyre pressure is lower and about the same as your Front tyre pressure or a little higher) and a 23mm Front tyre should be fine ... have a look at these ...

Rear
- FSC50-CJ-25, 32H (700c cyclecross carbon clincher wheels, 50mm deep, 25mm wide ... http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=758
or
- FSC50-CJ, 32H (2013 NEW Version - 700c cyclecross carbon Tubeless/Clincher wheels, 50mm deep clincher, 23mm wide ... http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=756
or
- FSC50-CJ-24, 32H

Front
FSC50-CJ, 24H, 50mm deep, 23mm wide 0x or 1x or even 2x ... http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=756

Hubs
- there is a choice ... DT Swiss 240S hubs, Tune, Bitex, Novatec, Choice, etc

Grease ... choice of grease around your hub ratchet and freehub mechanism is important ...
- I have been using Belray Waterproof Grease - this grease resists water washout, bearing contamination, improves seal functions and has very low friction properties.

You could also use a nice alloy 23mm wide rim, have a look here ... http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/products/2013-rim-roundup.html


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 Post subject: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:50 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Poormans Canyon
@ eric
Check your post. I think there is a typo there as I know you know better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3321
Location: Natovi Landing
eric - maybe the guys you ride with are too polite to mention their friend's horrendous fashion faux pas?

I mis-match only with a Powertap. Then it's acceptable depending on build


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1717
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Klabs- Belray is good stuff but I prefer a thinner grease for freewheel pawls. After seeing Tyler Hamiton crash after breaking a freewheel some years back in I am a little worried about using something too thick and having the pawls not seat fully in the ratchet.

Dcgriz- thanks.

Sawyer- most of the guys I ride with are really experienced masters who know that none of that stuff matters. But the younger guys I ride with wouldn't do that either. I'm not sure they'd notice. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:47 am
Posts: 896
Location: somewere floating between here and the other side
David:
I wouldn't worry about matching wheels,
However i can not see how a 20/28 spoke configuration is not going to last, and when a spoke goes in a wheel with " minimal" spokes it pretty much means taxi home, or ridding lots of small circles clisse to home (;

I think the priority should be in strength than perhaps aero or weight.personally i dont think there is much worse than having trouble with the gear in the middle of a ride ?
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:16 pm
Posts: 33
Why not get something sturdier and cheaper until you have reached your ideal weight?
At your weight I'd go for 36 spoke wheels built on something like:
Miche Racing Box hubs (if you use Campa), replace the qrs with Shimano or Campa qrs. These hubs have rather thick flanges.

Competition spokes or CX (not ray) spokes if you can find a slotted hub) and a strong rim that you can ride in any weather. Personally I'd go for a high aluminium clincher for wet breaking performance and for replacing punctured tires more easily, but a high carbon tubular will probably be even stronger.

Sturdy wheels will let you train unhindered by wheels breaking and you will get the power transfer you want. If a spoke breaks in a 36 hole wheel, you can probably keep on riding.
I suspect Tune hubs, 20/28 wheels will just lead to training interruptions at your current weight and possibly injuries, you'll also experience more flex.
You probably burn more than the extra weight of a sturdy wheelset on yourself in about a week as long as you can get out and train, and as you slim down, that will increase your aero performance much more than the extra spokes ever will decrease it.

Once you have reached a weight you are happy with, get a lighter pair of wheels, or get it now but do most of your training at your current weight on the heavy duty wheelset.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
Posts: 300
Location: Phoenix, AZ
fdegrove wrote:
As you said, the majority of the input but not all of it.
IOW, a spring would serve no purpose if it did NOT lose energy.

You're confusing springs with dampers. Springs store and return energy, while dampers dissipate it.

Quote:
It's simply physics.

Physics is involved, yes, but not quite in the way you seem to believe.


Cheers,

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 pm
Posts: 83
As I stated in my OP, I have Spinergy XAero Lites. If 20 spokes was not enough, then zipp or enve would use more. Please stop reccommending a 36 spoke boat anchor tied to an alum. box. I understand lightweight wheels need more care. Thank you

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel correctness
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:35 pm 


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