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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:10 am
Posts: 17
Title pretty much says it...
For an 80kg rider, is it possible to build a custom wheelset that outperforms Ksyrium SL wheels in every way for less money than a set of Ksyrium SLs on sale?

Looking for something with at least equivalent stiffness and weight for sprinting and hill climbing (better is better), but much improved aero.

I have had a good experience with my Ksyrium SLs for all round riding expect where strong wind comes into play (common complaint it seems!). I don't mind climbing, but growing up on a mtb, I love decending. The Ksyriums have scared the life out of me on what should be amazing fast decents when buffeted by strong crosswinds!

Feel free to suggest retail wheel sets that could surprise me.


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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:05 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
It would actually be quite easy to build a wheelset that is lighter, cheaper, and stiffer than the Ksyriums. Getting them to be more aero isn't too difficult either. For the rims, the A23 OC from Velocity may be worth a look. They are 23mm wide which will enhance the ride quality in the corners, and they happen to be pretty rigid for their weight. The hoops are also made right here in the US of A.
For the hubs, the T11s from White Industries are going to be a hard option to beat. They are extremely durable, reasonably priced, and super easy to service. Oh and like the rims, these are made in the US.
For the spokes, I choose Cxrays from Sapim on most days. Light, durable, and relatively resistant to gouging.
Total weight would be 1436 grams in a 20/28 hole count. Oh and these would only be $740 shipped to your doorstep.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:41 pm 
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I should mention I'm in Aus, so the shipped to my door price may be impacted a bit?

How big a step would it be to dip under 1400g for the wheelset? Would the drop in weight start to mean sacrifices in performance measures? Or only if I'm trying to keep it to a compatible price point?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:35 am
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Yes.

My PowerTap wheelset weighs almost the same as my Ksyriums and is more stable in crosswinds. I also enjoy riding it more.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Shipping to Australia would only add about $20 to that build price. You could always shoot to go under 1400 grams. That would easily be doable, but there would be a significant increase in price. For example, you could swap the T11s for the Tune Mig/Mag combo. That would shave about 100 grams from the overall build (putting you in the 1340 g range) but you would then be looking at a price tag of just under $1000.

Is that upgrade worth it? Well, it depends. When considering that we are on a Weight Weenies forum, most would say go for it. Personally, I would just deal with the extra hundred grams, and enjoy having a fatter wallet. That's just me though.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:50 pm 
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I am sure you could get a custom wheelset for your money that is lighter, stiffer (maybe) and more aero than a Ksyrium sl wheelset but I'm not sure it would have the same bullet proof quality. Ksyiums or say Campagnolo Shamals are system wheels and will spin and spin forever. All the constituent parts are perfectly matched. The other problem in my view with custom is warranty. Buy your Mavic or Campy wheels from a good local retailer or good online company and you won't have any warranty problems. If there are parts problems with handbuilt the builder will most likely have to send back constituent parts back to his surpplier with resultant delays.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:12 pm 
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konky wrote:
I am sure you could get a custom wheelset for your money that is lighter, stiffer (maybe) and more aero than a Ksyrium sl wheelset but I'm not sure it would have the same bullet proof quality. Ksyiums or say Campagnolo Shamals are system wheels and will spin and spin forever. All the constituent parts are perfectly matched. The other problem in my view with custom is warranty. Buy your Mavic or Campy wheels from a good local retailer or good online company and you won't have any warranty problems. If there are parts problems with handbuilt the builder will most likely have to send back constituent parts back to his surpplier with resultant delays.


uhm, ever had to replace a broken Ksyrium spoke?Good luck. Thats if the nipples havent corroded into the rim making replacement impossible. Mavic hubs arent the best either...

You can easily build a wheel thats lighter, cheaper, more servicable and with replacement parts significantly cheaper and more widely available these days than a Ksyrium SL.

Oh, and Mavic Ksyrium SL's are less aero than a pair of bog standard 32spoke low profile wheels(Proved in numerous tests) Those thick Zicral spokes are about as aerodynamic as a brick.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Personally I like Mavic, Kysrium Elites(2011) came with my TT bike, not the lightest, at 1550(actual). I feel they are quite adequate for daily use, for reference I use 21c Vittoria cx's and vittoria latex at 100/110psi. Also I measure them to be ~22mm wide when installed, and they are almost perfectly balanced with the 42mm valve on the latex tubes. What is the weight of mavic rims is it ~400gm? As for the hubs... don't listen to me, I think my zipp303's with 188/88 hubs roll nice.

For a retail wheelset, consider Shimano Ultegra 6700 which I have seen for sale under $400, your shipping costs may negate the savings...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=80990
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=40568

I realize I recommend heavier wheels that your 1400gm goal, from what i've seen most of the weight savings in a custom wheel is in the hubs. Most low profile clincher wheels have about the same weight rims and spokes.

Maybe the extra $400 can go to a really nice set of tubulars.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:18 am 
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konky wrote:
uhm, ever had to replace a broken Ksyrium spoke?Good luck. Thats if the nipples havent corroded into the rim making replacement impossible.

This just might be the reason I've lost confidence in my current set of Ksyrium SLs. Broke a spoke on the rear wheel and had to wait around a month before I found a shop with some in stock (others ordered spokes in for me, just to be delayed and delayed, then told they couldn't actually order until they met minimum order quantities from the suppliers - lots of mucking around). The LBS with the spokes in stock fitted the replacement and trued the wheel in a day. Got home to find that my LBS had twisted another spoke in truing the wheel and "this couldn't be helped because the nipples had corroded to the spoke." Of course then the sales pitch kicked in as I was then told it was time I upgrade!

I've built bikes for a long time, but my weakness is unfortunately I know nothing about building wheels - I'd love to have a crack one day.

andyindo wrote:
Maybe the extra $400 can go to a really nice set of tubulars.

What is the advantage of tubulars over clinchers?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:49 am 
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JKS - shipping whole wheels from the US can get expensive. I shipped rims, hubs and spokes separately and built them myself.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:22 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Why stick to the dated Ksyrium concept in the first place?
Whilst the Campa efforts to attempt to copy and improve it where pretty successful (Eurus/Shamal) they still ended up with a similar set of engineering flaws inherent to the concept.
I.e. rather harsh riding wheels and way too wide aluminium spokes that are only aero at a certain degree of yaw.

There's a good reason why engineers won't combine carbon rims and aluminium spokes.....

Anyhow, I think you already received good suggestions yet I'm well aware that importing stuff from abroad is not that easy nor cheap being in OZ.
No good wheel builders locally then?

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:50 am 
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
What is the advantage of tubulars over clinchers?


For one they'd allow to build a lighter wheel overall. Anything else would fall in the domain of what suits you best kind of set of compromises I guess.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:48 am 
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Posts: 655
Location: so. cal.
i ride tubulars and to the maistream guy they offer no advantage. now nicer tubs are way better than clichers, but are way more expensive. with tubulars you will need to factor glue as well. if both rims are aluminium i see no advantages to a tubular rim, specially with rims like hed belgium series and othe wide rim offerings. either dura ace or white industries hubs laced to one of the mentioned rims and some sapim spokes is going to be just as aero if not more; about the same weight or lighter; the meain advantage is going to be that you are going to have something built for you that is going to be more durable, better lookingand in the long run easier to service. somebody mentioned warranty, but to my understanding warranties only cover you for so long and only against manufacturers defects. lets face it if it takes that long just to get a spoke does the warranty really matter. i would choose custom hands down.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:00 pm
Posts: 31
If you already own the mavic ksyrium sl why would you waste money on another set of aluminum clinchers custom or otherwise.

Wouldn't the next move be to a set of carbon wheels 38+? :wink: :shock: :oops: :oops:


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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:56 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 204
Location: North Adelaide, South Australia
quote]
uhm, ever had to replace a broken Ksyrium spoke?Good luck. Thats if the nipples havent corroded into the rim making replacement impossible..[/quote]

Yep, $25 / spoke. Lucky it wasn't the red one!

My affections towards my SL's ended when finding that the non-bladed section of the spoke near the rim twists terribly when truing them - even when using the proper spoke clamp.

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