The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
WinterRider
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Jeremy via Alchemy suggested going all 1x with heads in on the even numbered NDS triplets in our email exchange. I stuck a couple spokes in a hub and looked at that arrangement.. and he's very right as to the minor cross interference. Obvious advantage is the spoke angle vs the flange stresses... which should be less 1x. I will definitely try that next time around. Thanks again Jeremy for taking the time.

As I think I noted above in the 18-10 lacing.. I used heads out for more uniform tension side to side. I figured that lacing meant slightly less flange stress also. [?].

While I see the point/s per radial lacing vs hub stress.... my view is that concern is somewhat over stated. Consider.. the 16 or even in some cases 18 holes alone on some DS builds.. cranked to 130 kgf +. With some of the stiff rims being employed in those builds... hub stresses have to be very high. And while the radial pulls away at 90 degrees.. that stress at every other hole. Yes likely some brands do appear to separate more often.. yet one has to consider the build overall and how that wheel was used.

User avatar
LouisN
Posts: 2319
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

I have a MTB front hub with a 15mm thru axle that's broken. Everything else on the wheel is in excellent shape.

The original axle is not available from the manufacturer.

Can I use another "standard" alloy 15mm thru axle ?
I need some end caps too, they shoud be 17 mm in diameter to cover the bearing cartridges (6803 I think) properly.

Thanks for the tips,

Louis :)

by Weenie


User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Alos i have a qusetion . need opinion

MTB 26" wheel , disc brakes, 32 spokes both (3x). Rim FRM(320g) or StansNoTubes(360g)
Will be useing 1,8mm spokes(Race) on DS increased stiffnes or will not be noticable (going with Lasers all the way)?

Fitzroy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:22 pm

by Fitzroy

Quick update on the topic that starts on this post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74564&start=3660#p946622" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
basically, EA90 SL's have cracked nipples and need a rebuild.

Easton have provide the details on spoke length and type, see below. Do I order these or can I order any spoke type (SP) of that length to complete the build? Would CX-Ray (and CX-Speeds for rear DS) be a better bet?

After some advice from experience builders.

Image

Wouldn't provide hub measurements to allow a new rim to be swapped in. They want $200 USD each for them!

Gregorio
Posts: 1582
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Center of the Universe

by Gregorio

I am not 100% sure, but I thought that I read that Easton used the kinlin xr300 for that wheelset. I am sure others can confirm.

User avatar
Zen Cyclery
Shop Owner
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Location: McCall, ID
Contact:

by Zen Cyclery

@kavitator- Going with Races on the DS will not make the wheel noticeable stiffer than going Lasers all around.

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Thanks :thumbup:

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I'd personally use the D-light spokes all round instead of lasers but I suppose it depends on the kind of terrain you are using. 26" wheels are stiffer tan 700c wheels anyway so using a stiffer spoke DS makes less sense.

User avatar
WinterRider
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Zen Cyclery wrote:@kavitator- Going with Races on the DS will not make the wheel noticeable stiffer than going Lasers all around.


Having never had the use of lighter NDS spokes explained to me.. think now the 'light' is going on.

For instance.. if the DS was laced with 14G to 120 kgf.. the Park tension meter would read "25". Assuming this build gave a 50% NDS tension .. a 14G NDS would give "19" Park. Substitute those 14G NDS with Sapin Laser's having a 1.5 mid section.. and read across the chart.. the Laser's kgf reading corresponding to the 19 reading of the 14's.. would show 117 kgf. [?].

Is that correct?

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Yes to your question winter rider. It idea of laser spokes on the NDS is that they stretch more for a given load. So more raidaly deflection is required to get them to loose tension. Of course radial stiffenss will be a bit lower with Laser NDS and Race spokes DS, compared to Race spokes all round, so there will be more radial deflection anyway. However what I do not know for certain is if there drop is radial stiffness with using Laser spokes NDS is big enough to remove the benefit of using them.

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Well on lightweight aluminium clincher it works - kinlin xr200 with 28 spokes (14race,14laser) is stiff and and dont need any trueing for long time

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

I am looking for Mavic spokes R2R (cosmic exalithe wheels) table for tension with Wheelfanatyk tensiometer.
Has anyone got it?

Is really 110kg max tension on those rims? (older claim 170kg- but we know what happened to them)

Cheers

Fitzroy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:22 pm

by Fitzroy

Fitzroy wrote:Quick update on the topic that starts on this post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74564&start=3660#p946622" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
basically, EA90 SL's have cracked nipples and need a rebuild.

Easton have provide the details on spoke length and type, see below. Do I order these or can I order any spoke type (SP) of that length to complete the build? Would CX-Ray (and CX-Speeds for rear DS) be a better bet?

After some advice from experience builders.

Image

Wouldn't provide hub measurements to allow a new rim to be swapped in. They want $200 USD each for them!


Gregorio wrote:I am not 100% sure, but I thought that I read that Easton used the kinlin xr300 for that wheelset. I am sure others can confirm.


Don't think they use XR-300's. The F is a 21mm profile and the rear is 25mm. I've not been able to pinpoint the exact rims they do use.

User avatar
WinterRider
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

bm0p700f wrote: However what I do not know for certain is if there drop is radial stiffness with using Laser spokes NDS is big enough to remove the benefit of using them.


I ran some numbers thru the Machine Head software. 50% NDS tensions listed for each effective spoke diameter.. figures for elongation of that spoke with 120 kgf DS tension.

1.5 = .4742mm = .0186"

1.8 = .3304mm = .1301"

2.0 = .2673mm = .0105"

So.. the actual difference in elongation between 1.5's and 2.0's on the NDS is .008" Hence to date I have not bothered using lighter spokes on the NDS.. as IMO the added elongation is not worth the bother.

Butted spokes of course.. absorb more of the shock of re-tensioning of the spoke.. saving the elbow material that strain alone.

by Weenie


JKS
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:10 am

by JKS

Feel free to redirect me if I'm out of line posting here on just entering this forum, or simply posting in the wrong place...go easy, this is my first post!

I am happy building bikes and quite enjoy it. One thing I don't know much about is wheel building! I've found my way here on the search for a cheaper and improved wheel set; with my Ksyrium SLs on their last legs. I've had a good experience with the Ksyriums, but I've read often that any wheel builder who knows their art can build a much stiffer, lighter and more aero wheel set for a lot less?

I don't really want to take the plunge on carbon wheels (budget dictated), but I'd love to improve on the Ksyriums, especially when it comes to aerodynamics. I don't mind climbing and I love pushing it on a good decent, but the Ksyriums have scared the life out of me on some decents that should have been brilliant, but had crazy strong crosswinds. I don't mind a good sprint take off and I'll stomp up and over the short sharp climbs around town. I wouldn't call myself a racer, but I appreciate good gear that rides well and fast.

So, I'm after opinions on a lightweight aluminium clincher wheel set that makes me wonder why I liked the Ksyriums so much around town and makes me wish I got onto custom wheels so much earlier when it comes to riding fast in strong crosswinds. Even just being pointed in the right direction on who to talk to and where to look would be much appreciated.

I've been thinking fairly seriously about a 2nd hand Cervelo R3. So to put the wheels into context, this is what I may be pairing them with. Please share your thoughts or tell me where else I should be looking for advise. Cheers

Edit: I weigh ~80kg; figure that is important info when talking about lightweight wheels

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post