The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I am goin to edit my above post today to try and make it more accurate as there a number of things about the explaination that I am not happy with. Edit post above edited now so please re read if you have done so already.

Kavitor I just CX-rays all over. The wheel seems stiff enough and given the 24 psoke count on the rear and the chaps lowish wirght I do not forsee a problem.

KLabs
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by KLabs

Thanks bm0p700f, really appreciated :-) ... have I got this right, to summarize, the most important aspects of a rear wheel build (or any wheel build) are ...

1. Rim stiffness/strength (radially and laterally)
2. Spoke bracing angle which is improved by using shorter spokes (radial lacing), HeadsIn lacing (radial or 1x lacing), large DS hub flange diameter, and rim depth
3. Strong/Stiff hubs that do not have hub windup and have excellent flange strength (to support radial lacing).
4. A stiff hubs NDS can be laced to handle all torque effects although it is better if DS/NDS handle torque effects
5. Sufficient spoke number and spoke tension to handle the expected lateral loading (and to a lesser extent radial/torsional loading) that the wheel will endure
6. Sufficient spoke crossings to handle a hubs torsional loading (pedaling and disc brakes)
7. Spokes that depart a hub tangentially (or within 30 degrees) produce a smaller spoke tension/detension cycle due to torque ... generally 2x is sufficient
8. Radial lacing doesn't transfer torque well and requires very strong hub flanges due to the spokes perpendicular hub departure

by Weenie


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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

KLabs wrote: 8. Radial lacing doesn't transfer torque well and requires very strong hub flanges due to the spokes perpendicular hub departure


I've been looking online for a list/summary of rear hubs that allow radial lacing.. w/o any luck.
Anyone have a link or can other experiences with radial lacing NDS rear FH's?

Contacting White Industries.. brought the response 2x rear was the least cross they'd recommend. My interest there per the chro-moly axle use.. I require a strong rear axle per weight.. 235 lbs.

EDIT: I've noted later in this thread the Chris King R45 states radial for that hub... advising at least 1x DS.
Last edited by WinterRider on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Klabs that list is just about it I think, unless I forgot something you missed.

Those XR-380 wheels well they are just black and I like that. Using lighter hubs a little more weight could be shaved of but not too much. They are 1646g and a 20F/24R spoke count. The one thing about Kinlins you do get builds with very even tension and very high tolerances, not bad for cheaper rims.
Image

I am struggling to think of a hubs that rated for radial lacing on the rear. The Miche RG2 or Primtao in 24H drilling while not rated for radial rear lacing will probably cope as the rear flanges are the same as the front (same material I think and certainly the same thickness and it is thick) and front will do radial lacing. However the rear is 290g and most places only sell them in pairs. I buy them seperatley through an alternative source (miche UK agent) than the usual distributors.

KLabs
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by KLabs

bm0p700f wrote:Klabs that list is just about it I think, unless I forgot something you missed.

I am struggling to think of a hubs that rated for radial lacing on the rear. The Miche RG2 or Primtao in 24H drilling while not rated for radial rear lacing will probably cope as the rear flanges are the same as the front (same material I think and certainly the same thickness and it is thick) and front will do radial lacing. However the rear is 290g and most places only sell them in pairs. I buy them separately through an alternative source (miche UK agent) than the usual distributors.

Thanks bm0p700f, and I believe the following rear hubs can accept radial lacing Novatec, Bitex (especially the 2:1 hubs @ BHS), the ones mentioned @ Fair Wheel bikes, and probably others like Chosen, etc :-)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Which novatec there are many. Novatec don't seem to publish which of there hubs are good for radial lacing but they only the front A291 SB for radial lacing and probaly the A291 SB-SL hub as well so that one must be fine.

KLabs
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by KLabs

Hi bm0p700f, have a look at the Novatec F482SB, F482SB-SL, and F482SB-11 and the front hub is A291SB and A291SB-SL ... http://www.bdopcycling.com/Hubs-Road.asp ...

Haven't you mentioned the F482SB before. Perhaps you can't do DS radial with this hub but I thought that it could :-)

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

My interest in radial lacing rear FH's stems from my 3 triplet builds to date. First two feature NDS radial heads in... 36H and 24H in 26".

The last not a true triplet I guess.. 28H going 18-10. Came about only as the lightly used rim (Kinlin generic I believe.. low 400's grs) and new Shimano hub (lower end) were sitting here. IMO the 24H triplet in 700 isn't enough for my weight.. hence this assembly for an experiment/trial. To maximize tension balance I laced it heads out.. tension both side runs in the low 120's kgf range... fairly evenly balanced around the wheel.

I find the triplet concept interesting... time will tell riding though how practical it is at my weight level. Has added a good deal of interest for me building.. chasing our winter AWAY.. :beerchug:

Sapim Strong spokes btw. Not WW.. but suit this trial I thought.

Image

Image

KLabs
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by KLabs

WinterRider wrote:My interest in radial lacing rear FH's stems from my 3 triplet builds to date. First two feature NDS radial heads in... 36H and 24H in 26".

The last not a true triplet I guess.. 28H going 18-10. Came about only as the lightly used rim (Kinlin generic I believe.. low 400's grs) and new Shimano hub (lower end) were sitting here. IMO the 24H triplet in 700 isn't enough for my weight.. hence this assembly for an experiment/trial. To maximize tension balance I laced it heads out.. tension both side runs in the low 120's kgf range... fairly evenly balanced around the wheel.

I find the triplet concept interesting... time will tell riding though how practical it is at my weight level. Has added a good deal of interest for me building.. chasing our winter AWAY.. :beerchug:

Hi WinterRider, did you build to front wheel or did you build a rear wheel or as an experiment did you build a rear wheel (using a FH) with the intent to eventually build a 2:1 (triplet) style rear wheel. Unfortunately, using a FH won't give you a real picture of how the rear wheel will build due to flange spacing, flange diameters, and flange offsets (Dishing) ...
Were all of the NDS spokes of equal length?
What DS lacing did you use?

Ever thought of doing an 18:9 using a 36H hub and rim or even a 20:10 using a 40H hub and rim?
With 10 spokes NDS you could 1x and maybe even 2x ... and still only 30 spokes :-)

Enjoy your experimenting :-)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Well I have a vento 18:9 hub I have been think what to do with it. May be I should lace it this way to a 36H rim. Perhaps a cheap open pro for an experiment. I don't have a matching front hub for a wheelset though. The hub is heavy as well.

KLabs
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by KLabs

bm0p700f wrote:Well I have a vento 18:9 hub I have been think what to do with it. May be I should lace it this way to a 36H rim. Perhaps a cheap open pro for an experiment. I don't have a matching front hub for a wheelset though. The hub is heavy as well.

Hey bm0p700f, excellent, do you think you could do the 9 spokes NDS 1x to remove some stress on the NDS flange (is that even a good idea)?
With a 36H rim you would get a triplet appearance (skipping every 4th spoke hole) which would look pretty cool ... :-)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I would have to some spare time to build it though. Very busy in the shop at the moment, building wheels. I think I give radial NDS a go though as the hub hardly cost me anything and the rim will be cheap so it does not bother me if it fall apart.

vala
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by vala

Hello all,

I'm looking at putting some HED C2's onto Hope Pro3's via Sapim spokes. I've decided on Laser's for the front however aside from the weight loss is there anything else that's beneficial to using Laser's on the NDS rear? I'm going to use Race for the DS.
Spoke count will be 28/28.

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Zen Cyclery
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by Zen Cyclery

@vala-I doubt there would be any real world difference in running Lasers on the rear NDS.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Do it for the small weight loss. I use Laser on the NDS as techically it should make the NDS spoke have a slightly longer life. Possibly no difference in reality though as the rim will wear out before the spoke fatigue hopefully.

I rarely use Race spokes both side on a road wheel unless the rider weight, rider riding style/power output, budget or other factors necessitates it. No point in making wheels heavier than they need to be.

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