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Veloce or Centaur or Other?
Veloce 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
Centaur 47%  47%  [ 17 ]
Other 31%  31%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 36
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Posts: 3321
Location: Natovi Landing
wasabi1 wrote:
Go for veloce. Same weight/function as centaur yet cheaper.

The carbon version of centaur is not carbon and looks cheap.

If going for caad9/10, forget the campagnolo crankset. At this level not great and heavy.
Go for bb30 crankset for stiffness and weight. Second hand hollowgram would be good.

Total groupset weight would be competitive at a good price. Function excellent.


The old carbon Centaur cranks (UT) were carbon, but perhaps they've downgraded them with PT?

I have SR, Record and Chorus cranks and they're all the same. All with ceramics and tbh the Chorus ones I've always liked best, which is no doubt down to the frame and exacting set up with ceramicspeed bearings than anything else.

Agree with you re Campag cranks on BB30. I'm doing the CAAD10 with Campag build right now and am fitting an Exogram (de-decaled, don't fret). Far lighter and quieter than the squeakbox adaptor set-up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Posts: 56
I have a Centaur (Carbone) 2009 on a bike.
Mounted a Veloce 2012 on a friends.

The Ultra-Torque crank (pre 2011 Centaur) is much better than the new Power-Torque (Veloce and Centaur).
Also, the same applies to the UltraShift and PowerShift levers.

The Centaur since 2011 is basicly a downgrade ...

--> get a 2010 Centaur. :-)


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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:43 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:33 pm 
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I got the 2011 Veloce groupset when it was new for around €400 (2010 version was allready gone). I have been very happy with it and it has worked great. Performance wise I am happier with my Veloce groupset than my 105 groupset (though my 105 groupset works well enough).
Rather than spending extra on Centaur get Veloce, I doubt you'll see a performance difference with Centaur. If you do want to pay extra for additional functionality, get a pair of NOS 2010 Veloce or Centaur shifters or possibly a 10 speed Ultra Torque crankset (I am Ok with the Powertorque crankset). That way you actually get additional functionality for your money.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Location: Ireland
Ok I voted other, if budget allows why not Athena, 11sop so less likely to become obsolete in the near future.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Posts: 1512
I guess I'd suggest not getting a complete groupset. Get the parts for the price that give you the lowest weight while still giving you good performance.

Things like Campy brakes or chains don't make sense when it comes to budget weight weenie projects.

Maybe, Veloce Shifters, Derailleurs and Cassette; KMC chain; TRP920 or CNC PX brakes; crank?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I don't really care much about 11speed and financially that isn't the best option so that is discounted. I'm perfectly happy with 10 and especially considering cost, don't see a reason to add more right now.

Regarding part wise, I have thought of picking piece by piece however, to me there is a certain appeal to having an entire groupset. On that note as well, I am not concerned with weight so that really isn't a reason for me to pick separate parts.

Looks like Centaur is winning here, going to have to look into that group a bit more seriously :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:21 pm 
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SolidSnake03 wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I don't really care much about 11speed and financially that isn't the best option so that is discounted. I'm perfectly happy with 10 and especially considering cost, don't see a reason to add more right now.

Regarding part wise, I have thought of picking piece by piece however, to me there is a certain appeal to having an entire groupset. On that note as well, I am not concerned with weight so that really isn't a reason for me to pick separate parts.

Looks like Centaur is winning here, going to have to look into that group a bit more seriously :D


actually my tally of the responses show a vote for Veloce - by about 6:3.

there are several responders who may be confusing the Centaur and Veloce of the last decade with today's models, and I'd not count those. There was a difference at one time (pre 2007).

I repeat - there is no functional difference at all. You and others are making the mistake of thinking that if something is priced higher, then it must be better. Campy has a long history of charging for the label when the internals are identical. With cars, back in the day, it was called "badge engineering".

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:03 pm 
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A veloce group is as light as ultegra 6700 certainly lighter than 5700. Centaur is 50g lighter unless you go for the carbpn cranks. The carbon centaur cranks and BB are about 730g a veloce crankset + BB is about 820g.
Persoanlly I have Centaur carbon cranks with a veloce groupset. That is the best bang for buck as that weighs about I do not think the extra money for Centuar is worth it.

A complete veloce groupset minus cables is 2356g or there abouts. My version with Centaur carbon cranks is 100g lighter.

Veloce shifter are 5g lighter than centaur shifters. All the carbon wrap on centuar adds weight! A Veloce rear mech is 7g lighter and functions the same as centaur.

The only downside to veloce or centaur is the power torque system. While it is light and has a low Q-factor it is not DIY freindly as NDS crank removal require special tools and bearing removale from the DS crank arm requires more tools. The up side is it is a very relaible crankset and BB bearing do last. In mine I removed the NDS and DS bearings and replaced them with SKF 6805 bearings. These fitted fine and the crankset operates like it would with campag DS bearing replacement and new set of cups + NDS bearing. It also saved me money which is why I did it. If the original bearings ar 6mm wide then the use of 7mm wide 6805 bearings has not affect the function of the crankset on bit. Fortunatley I own a shop and have all the PT tools. Cyclus make the best IMO.

Also the veloce left hand shifter can sometimes get stuck on the down shift which is anoying. I much prefer the ultra shift on Chorus or above.

Also for the weight weenie a veloce rear mech uses a steel rear back plate on the cage. This is repacable with a fibreltye cage and along with there pulley a 28g weight saving is possible I worked out. That would a veloce rear mech weight in at 200g. With some bolt tuning and dremeling a 180g or less rear mech could be had.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:29 pm 
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I went with a Veloce rear mech simply because it was available in silver. Kind of a lame reason, but it was also less costly than the Centaur mech.

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Just looking on Total's site I notice a fair selection of 2007-8 Ultra Torque cranksets on sale. UT is a way better system IMO. I have one of the '07 Centaur cranksets. In that year they came with the better machined chainrings too. Later they are pressed: http://www.totalcycling.com/a-z/cranksets/cranksets_road/FC_CENTAUR_UT_07.html

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
These older UT- carbon chainsets are only about 40g lighter than a modern PT veloce crankset. Also the new centaur PT crankset set is about 50g lighter than the previous UT version. So those UT cranksets are not the bargin they might appear to be. In fact I prefer Veloce to ultegra and I know which cost more.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:12 am 
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bm0p700f wrote:
These older UT- carbon chainsets are only about 40g lighter than a modern PT veloce crankset. Also the new centaur PT crankset set is about 50g lighter than the previous UT version. So those UT cranksets are not the bargin they might appear to be. In fact I prefer Veloce to ultegra and I know which cost more.


Since this is weight weenies...............

UT weight includes both bearings, PT includes 1. So you would be wrong.

Current Veloce C/S + Cups = 758+72=830

2009 Centaur UT carbon = 711+46=757

difference = 73g

Anyway, anyone who has ever installed/removed UT cranks is going to cite the simplicity and design of UT as the reason for the preference. Not weight.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Last edited by bikerjulio on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:19 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5786
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
The only downside to veloce or centaur is the power torque system. While it is light and has a low Q-factor it is not DIY freindly as NDS crank removal require special tools and bearing removale from the DS crank arm requires more tools. The up side is it is a very relaible crankset and BB bearing do last. In mine I removed the NDS and DS bearings and replaced them with SKF 6805 bearings. These fitted fine and the crankset operates like it would with campag DS bearing replacement and new set of cups + NDS bearing. It also saved me money which is why I did it. If the original bearings ar 6mm wide then the use of 7mm wide 6805 bearings has not affect the function of the crankset on bit. Fortunatley I own a shop and have all the PT tools. Cyclus make the best IMO.



All of which is totally OT.
Regarding respecting Campa's bearing size or not, I'm sure that has been discussed before and generally proven not to be an alley to be discussed just on passing..

Not Cylcus, but VAR makes the best (whatever)......Since we'e in opinion country.... :mrgreen:

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Well this is getting a bit more involved than I thought :unbelievable:

Budget concerns have limited me to price of either of these groups which caps out at about $550 or so. A full Centaur group is about the most I'm able to spend at this time which is why the decision is between these two. With that in mind, most of the posts about mixing bits and pieces sounds interesting but I have financial concerns about it, I can see that going over-budget real fast.

Anyhow, I appreciate the input everyone, I'm really only interested in the functioning of the components and from that background I have heard both that the Centaur lever's feel a bit better in shifting action as well as that both are identical. Not sure where to go here :?:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 pm 
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SolidSnake03 wrote:
Well this is getting a bit more involved than I thought :unbelievable:

Budget concerns have limited me to price of either of these groups which caps out at about $550 or so. A full Centaur group is about the most I'm able to spend at this time which is why the decision is between these two. With that in mind, most of the posts about mixing bits and pieces sounds interesting but I have financial concerns about it, I can see that going over-budget real fast.

Anyhow, I appreciate the input everyone, I'm really only interested in the functioning of the components and from that background I have heard both that the Centaur lever's feel a bit better in shifting action as well as that both are identical. Not sure where to go here :?:


You should listen to someone who knows what they are talking about. You appear to be not fully reading and comprehending what I have been telling you.

At one time there WAS a difference in the shifters. NOW the complete internal assy is the same p/n.

Suggest you do some further work on pricing. Go to the Ribble and Total websites and price out groups and then the individual items. If you can get an UT crankset within your budget, I'd suggest you do that. Yes the Chorus shifters are nicer, but I suspect not within it. The Powershift action works fine too.

Campy is very good at showing technical info and spares on their site. Suggest you look there and confirm what I have been telling you.

Just noticed that Ribble has an additional 10% off orders, but not groupsets. Sometimes it can be cheaper to pick & choose.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 pm 


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