So you're saying that a company that takes pre-orders and customer cash up-front is now investing research dollars into wind tunnel testing? Have I got that right?

To make a wider rim requires more material hence more weight.

Going through the thread there seems to be a misconception regarding factories that have open mold rims available. They all do. That doesn't mean that they don't also do proprietary work.

Mega and Gigantex are pretty well known Taiwanese suppliers. Both also make rims for several brands that are NOT open molds hence NOT available to anyone other than the brand that owns the molds. The factories that run the molds are not allowed to sell rims from those molds to anyone other than the brand that owns those molds under any circumstance.

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BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com

So would it be safe to say, along that logic, that if a Zipp FC wheel is made in the same factory, by the same people doing he lay ups by hand, but using different molds - the two wheels would at least be compatible in their abilities to pass minimum standards for safety?

I guess my point is, I would would be inclined to trust a wheel made by Gigntex to not be an absolute piece of garbage since the guy who laid up my open mold wheel has also laid up hundreds of wheels for Zipp (for example - doesn't need to be a Zipp).

That wasn't my point.

It had more to do with a feeling that I picked up reading the thread that many thought factories offering open mold products ONLY sold open mold products and I was trying to correct what I believed was a misconception.

As to your point coming from the same factory doesn't mean that the materials used are the same or that there aren't methods or spec specific to the brand being made there that are not the same as what is offered as an open mold product. Just as GM can produce many different levels of cars in terms of quality carbon factories can offer layups that differ in quality.

I would probably agree with you that factories that make top tier goods certainly have that capabilty (which is why they were chosen as a partner) and that the odds are the open mold products they offer are decent as well.

Successful brands are far more likely to partner with factories that are trustworthy so it is far less likely that they will add to runs or do additional runs with inferior materials and grey market them on Alibaba or eBay claiming that the products are something they are not.

I mentioned Mega and Gigantex specifically as those two names get thrown around quite a bit incorrectly.

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BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com

If you had a business wouldn't you be excited to invest in it and have it grow and be able to take advantage of opportunities and try to continually improve what you do? That's pretty much exactly what we're doing.

I don't really get the knock against pre-orders. It works out to an incredible APR in the customer's favor ($100 off a set of $945 wheels for 90 day delivery is about 40% APR) and a lot of people take advantage of it. Except when we sell a lot more than we've forecast, which is where we are right now, we keep every type of rim available for for builds at all times. We keep warranty stock of every rim available at all times. People love the pre-order. It's become a less significant part of our business as we've grown, but as long as there's still the strong demand for it and it doesn't conflict with the rest of what we're doing, we'll do it. Other bike companies have done pre-orders since we started it, and this "Kickstarter" thing that seems pretty similar to the pre-order.

We offer a lot of options (each rim type has 2 different spoke type and color options, at least 4 different hub options with between 2 and 10 color choices, some of our builds have 2 or 3 different drilling options) so most of them amount to custom orders. It's not at all unusual for custom orders to require payment up front. Other companies offer nowhere near the level of options we do, and it would be impossible for us to keep all options in stock, ready to go. We are gradually building up the stock of wheels that are available for immediate purchase, options are obviously somewhat limited on those, and those will ship within a couple of days of order in any case.

When you make rims wider, you have to add weight. The parts of the rim that do the hard structural work get bigger, and as BobDopolina says more material means more work. Rim sidewalls are thinner, so when you go deeper you don't add weight as quickly. Also, the more blunt profiles aren't as inherently strong as V-shaped profiles, so you need more material to keep the level of strength that you want there.

Prendrefeu - You can use the results of our rim test as a general indicator of how your rims do, but ours are different from the ones you have. Similar shape, but definitely not the same rim.

Thanks
Dave

Are your rims different than the Boyds? If so do you have a cross section so I can see?

I'm obviously local to you and am choosing between your wheels and the Boyds for next year probably. My 808 Firecrests were a hair too fragile for my taste.

Our rims are very different from everyone's. As I said, they are ours and ours alone - we own the design and the mold. You can see a pretty detailed section drawing at http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/2013/1/2/first-look-at-the-rail-our-proprietary-design-wide-carbon-cl.html

November - I didn't find anywhere on your site if the new Rail wheel will have a rider + bike weight limit. If not, sweet! If so, what?

We will publish weight limits after we do some stiffness testing, brake testing, and some subjective testing. Our goal is not to identify they 'they probably won't explode if you weigh less than this' limit, but a limit that will give users the experience with the wheels that they were designed to give. This includes performance, durability and safety. I would expect it to be in the low 200s based on what we know already.

Thanks

Wow, that Rail looks very interesting! I'm eager to see more!

I'm more interested in cross section comparison vs other shapes like Zipp, Enve, generic re-brands, etc. Not that it matters a ton.

And then there's these, from HongFu ::

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_produc ... s-286.html

The cross section looks interesting. Modeled after the 404FC?

Now that's what I'm talking about. I hope the weight is good, but not getting my hopes up.

Don't hold your breath until at least the end of February when the Chinese New Year, etc. celebrations are concluded. Must be nice to get nearly an entire month off to celebrate.

For anyone looking for pricing information on the FarSports wide clinchers, I emailed Smart asking for more information and received the following.

25mm wide 50mm deep clincher wheels(basalt brake surface)
Superlight 50mm clincher wheels(25mm wide,new U shape,basalt brake surface) +DT swiss 240s hubs+Sapim Cx-ray spokes =
1470g(+/-30g)

The sample price is 853USD. Shipping cost is 75USD/Set to USA via EMS(door to door).

Knowing I don't really need the DT Swiss 240 hubs.... I inquired about other build options including the CX-Rays

Yes, we have Novatec hubs laced with Cx-ray spokes. Following are the details with different hubs.
1, With Novatec hub: 1480g+/-30g/Set, 570USD/Set
2, With Bitex hub: 1470g+/-30g/Set, 550USD/Set
3, With EDhub: 1420g+/-30g/Set, 600USD/Set

EDhubs is our customized hubs.It is only 260g/set but very durable.
It have 8pcs Enduro bearings which is more 2pcs than other hubs. And it have 6pawls in the rear wheel.

I hope this helps those of you trying to decide between the Wide FAR Wheels and the Yeoleos.