Dura Ace 9000 - ETA late 2012/early 2013

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

Same as 7900 brakes really.

Could land a jumbo jet with them.

If you want modulation, Campag still the way to go.

Hubert
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by Hubert

KWalker wrote:So am I correct in that the Ultegra di2 rear mech won't be forward compatible with 11, but the front mech and shifters will be?


The derailleurs dictate the number of gears. Therefore, you are correct in assuming that the Ultegra Di2 RD will NOT be 11-speed compatible. However, your 6770 shifters and FD will be forward compatible, should you choose to mix & match.

As for 9000 series brakes, they have better modulation than 7900 (less of the binary on/off feeling) while having considerably more power. Modulation is vastly improved; however, people could misconceive them as being "grabby" because the required lever effort has been considerably reduced. Hence, if you grab a whole handful of brake, you may find the brakes "grabby." In reality, they're sublime.
Turn down the suck knob.

by Weenie


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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

I understood there would be a firmware update to allow Ultagra di2 to run 11sp?

According to articles like this. And FWB.

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BobDopolina
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by BobDopolina

Since the mechanical versions of both groups will be 11spd for MY2014 it would be very odd if this wasn't the case.
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thisisatest
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by thisisatest

As Hubert says, the rear derailleur dictates the number of gears. Rear derailleur will not be compatible with 10speed. You CAN have a complete Ultegra Di2 system with a 9070 rear derailleur and run 11speed. Shimano may say the FD and crank are still not optimized for 11speeds that way, but that's splitting hairs IMO. Rear derailleur is a go/no go situation, though.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

I don't think any of us have an issue grasping the current situation.

Again, going by those articles though it seems like it's only a matter of firmware?

KWalker
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by KWalker

Well that's why I ask because now I'm just confused. A local mechanic said the rear der. doesn't have the capacity to run the 11th cog. His explanation had something to do with the internals and didn't make much sense, but supposedly a Shimano rep told him that. I'm confused and have a chance to buy an Ultegra Ui2 group for very cheap, but don't want it to be non-forward compatible. If I had to get a new rear mech then whatever that's fine, but if the whole system didn't work that'd be another thing.
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Gazelleer
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by Gazelleer

Hubert wrote:The derailleurs dictate the number of gears.

Excusez le mot, but this is total BS.

In a mechanical system the rear derailleur does just what it is told to do by the cable; the shifter dictates. In an electronic system the rear derailleur just does what it is told to do by the firmware.

There are two reasons why a mechanical derailleur would not be able to cope with 11-speed:
1. when its total range of movement is not enough to cover the complete cassette or
2. when the manufacturer changes the geometry of the paralellogram so that the old derailleur is no longer compatible with the new shifter. (Shimano has not changed the geometry of their road derailleurs since about 1996)

The 11-speed cassette is only slightly wider than the 10 speed, so the first is unlikely. I haven't heard anything about the latter either.

For an electronic rear derailleur it is even simpler. If the derailleur can move far enough from limit to limit to cover the whole cassette it is possible to make it shift basically any number of cogs by changing the firmware.
Last edited by Gazelleer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

NWSAlpine
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Location: FL

by NWSAlpine

Yup the mechanical control is through the shifter. The rear mech is "dumb" and is just spring loaded.

For example there was the guy who modified the Sram Red shifter to add an 11th stop. Basically turning the current Sram Red to 11 speed mechanical.

roselend
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by roselend

Unfortunately I couldn't share it before but we had limited stock of DI2 11 speed in the shop last week. (mentioned by someone else couple of pages back)

I've now build 3 bikes with the new DI2 groupo's and It's just a whole new level. Somehow they managed to improve the performance over the original DI2 10 speeds groups. Front shifting is feels even more "secure" but that could be crank/chainring related as well. Rear shifting is vastly improved and faster, especially the down shifts (heavier gear) feel lighting fast and a real improvement over the old group.

E-tube wiring is a bliss versus the old DI2 wiring but we already knew that.

The new brake cables is wat caught my attention though. (sorry no pic, will post it on Friday) The cables use some kind of polymer coating instead of the brittle PTFE coating that other company's use. It gives the cable a very cool golden weave look and the feeling when braking is just amazing, feels almost compression-less.

I think the brakes are once again a clear improvement over the 7900 ones. The sheer stopping power is almost to much. I might add that I was using Roval red carbon brake pads on the new Roval 60 mm carbon wheels (Not really a fan of Roval wheels but these new ones feel great, good rim, DT 240 internals)
When I first installed the brakes they felt kinda mushy once they grabbed the rim and I thought it was related to the absence of the middle pivoting point. But when I started using them a little a more I realized this is just build in modulation and it works very well.

Sorry for the hasty cellphone pics

Image
Image
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Laurens
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by Laurens

I agree with Hubert on the brakes. The bike I used before the Fondriest (and still use for commuting) has 8 year old Ultegra and if you want to brake you just yank the levers. Do that with DA 9000 and you fly over the handle bars. You have to reprogram your brain and before that's done you're excused for thinking the brakes are grabby.

Horacio
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:28 am

by Horacio

Man, you guys are really making me jealous over that 9070. I've had it on order since Oct in multiple shops. My buddy's Cannondale Di2 equipped bike just showed up today at our LBS. On top of that, Willer posts a pic on FB of the Di2 kits showing up at their place today.
I wonder how much longer us bottom feeders have to wait before we can join in the bliss.


All I need are shifters, FD, RD and front juntion box. :noidea:

RobH
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:32 am
Location: Melbourne, AUS

by RobH

Waiting since September as well :(

I have heard that my EVO is on the ship coming to Aus so it won't be long now. Would love to see photo's of an EVO Di2 that someone has had delivered
Rides Cannondale System 6
Cannondale Capo
Masi Speciale (city bike)
2013 Cannondale EVO Di2 on order

Horacio
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:28 am

by Horacio

My buddy's bike will be ready Friday. I'll snap some pics and post them here granted I don't strip what I need off his bike. ;)

by Weenie


nagge
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 6:36 am
Location: Sweden

by nagge

Roseland: Is that a complete S-works Venge Di2? Or is it just the frame+Di2? I'm curious as I've been waiting for my Venge since september and the last I heard was delivery early april.

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