HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1617 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 ... 108  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7295
Location: San Francisco, CA
jmilliron wrote:
asv wrote:
DC Rainmaker has an in-depth review of the Stages Powermeter:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/stages-power-meter-in-depth-review.html


Ouch. This would be worthless to me in its current state. I'd want to use it to pace myself on climbs but the ones around here are not consistent. Lots of changes in grade due to switchbacks and whatnot.


Telling plot:

Image

So I agree. Wait for Stages-2.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 pm
Posts: 107
Is the Vector project dead in the water?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7295
Location: San Francisco, CA
Not that I've heard about.

I guarantee, though, they wouldn't release with accuracy data like that.

An advantage small players like Stages have is they can afford to beta-test on users. Stages-1 will crash and burn, but they'll come out with a Stages-2 with two arm units and things will get better, I predict. Garmin doesn't have that luxury.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Posts: 155
Location: Finland
Quote:
Is the Vector project dead in the water?


I hope not. Somebody mentioned somewhere that it would be released this spring, but I would not count on that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: New powermeter rumours
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 606
djconnel wrote:

An advantage small players like Stages have is they can afford to beta-test on users. Stages-1 will crash and burn, but they'll come out with a Stages-2 with two arm units and things will get better, I predict. Garmin doesn't have that luxury.


Isn't it the complete opposite? Startups don't have the resources to absorb a failed product before releasing a second iteration. I agree that they can release a buggy product in limited quantities and it's better tolerated, and overall can take more risks, but the stakes for their first product are very high.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 330
what I find kind interesting is that Stages, is sort of saying, and I admit that I am reaching.....

1. you can't prove that it's ours that is off
2. one power meter hooked up to two head units gets two different reading!!!!!!! This is not good for anybody if true!!!! 1st I have heard of this.( I wonder if this is why has taken garmin and brim so long to get to market) ( you have to give credit to quarq they were later than they said but they still delivered closer to their date than to garmin and brim)
3. it very very hard to get that 1.5 % accuracy.

DC's review is not good for Stages. I find it interesting that he is the only one that I have found that has "tested" it real world and not just reprinting the press day/ride they had in Boulder. Anybody have a different review with data? Ray is good but he can't the the single source when making a purchasing decisions. Even he calls out more than once and the 1st time in any of his reviews that i can remember is that it could be him and his use case. very very strange.

That being said, I think we have to given Stages a little time to
1. help us understand why Ray's data is they way that it is
2. updates to to their software. ( as everyones knows hardware easy , software very very hard.)
3. clean up their message. The reprinting the press day/ride they had in Boulder, have said multiple conflicting things, shipping dates, all the info on the Cannondale models and such.

C


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 pm
Posts: 107
Deleted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stages Powermeter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 173
uraqt wrote:
Anybody have a different review with data?


See RBR
One posting states:
Quote:
... but Neal Henderson posted his data a few days later


Please check the posting for the links (TrainingPeaks data for Stages, SRM, and Powertap), there's also a follow-up about more information.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7295
Location: San Francisco, CA
uraqt wrote:
what I find kind interesting is that Stages, is sort of saying, and I admit that I am reaching.....

1. you can't prove that it's ours that is off
2. one power meter hooked up to two head units gets two different reading!!!!!!! This is not good for anybody if true!!!! 1st I have heard of this.( I wonder if this is why has taken garmin and brim so long to get to market) ( you have to give credit to quarq they were later than they said but they still delivered closer to their date than to garmin and brim)
3. it very very hard to get that 1.5 % accuracy.


On #3 I fully agree: no power meter has 1.5% except maybe for Powertap (which has the drivetrain loss issue, and which loses precision as it ages). I state that with high confidence. The "constant cadence approximation" from using a magnetic cadence measurement that ticks once per revolution is enough to kill that.

On #1: that's the brilliance of the review. He calibrates to a LeMond trainer which since it uses big fat fans for resistance should be quite stable as a reference.

Image

At a given power the LeMond should be stable: constant LeMond power = constant power. It doesn't mean the ratio of powers on the LeMond is correct, so don't think because Quarq matches LeMond at one power it should match at all powers or the Quarq is wrong. For example, maybe LeMond models power proportional to speed to the 2.5 power, but it's more accurately speed to the 2.4 power. So focus on segments of near-constant LeMond power. The Quarq tracks the LeMond, but the Stages is all over the place.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4453
Location: Canada
djconnel wrote:
...no power meter has 1.5% except maybe for Powertap...

And SRM, obviously...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7295
Location: San Francisco, CA
Geoff wrote:
djconnel wrote:
...no power meter has 1.5% except maybe for Powertap...

And SRM, obviously...


No. It uses the constant cadence approximation. It's probably great if you hook it up to a motor. But when grinding up hills or through dirt I don't believe it's accurate.

_________________
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/
Fuji SL/1
\


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:32 pm
Posts: 142
djconnel wrote:
On #3 I fully agree: no power meter has 1.5% except maybe for Powertap (which has the drivetrain loss issue, and which loses precision as it ages). I state that with high confidence. The "constant cadence approximation" from using a magnetic cadence measurement that ticks once per revolution is enough to kill that.

I always thought that the spider based powermeters included multiple hall effect sensors so that they could have a more accurate cadence reading throughout the pedal stroke.


Last edited by deek on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:54 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 341
Location: Greenville, SC USA
Had the new SRAM ELSA come through the doors - here are some pics and actual weight for those who have not seen it.

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Blog: http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/glorycycles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7410
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Just to be clear, what is on the scale @ 508g?

Is it both arms, axle, quarq, rings? Anything else?

If that's truly only 508g, and the new pm design allows for easier ring swap... then someone could perhaps go:
ELSA compact + fibrelyte + non-sram GXP BB (such as Reset Racing) and be hovering around 600g ish?
If so... that's very, very impressive.

ELSA Compact PF30 + fibrelyte + PF30BB = damn light.

Less than an SRM?

_________________
Exp001 || TeamLACBC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5073
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
What is included in that 508 g?

Weight 735g (GXP, 130BCD, 172.5mm)


If that 508 g is supposed to be for the whole enchilada, including BB, then as Southerners would say, that dog don't hunt.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:08 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1617 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 ... 108  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. 2015 Rumours: Specialized Tarmac, Giant TCR, Cannondale S6

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

GeeTee

16

3357

Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:53 pm

CAFERACER View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Powermeter, for SiSL2

in Road

TheDarkInstall

12

698

Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:17 am

mrlobber View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Powermeter choice - Vector or Rotor power crank

in Road

greenplay

13

2742

Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:35 pm

HammerTime2 View the latest post


It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:42 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB