Tubular Repair

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Cula
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:25 pm

by Cula

fdegrove wrote:
Whatever it was I see no reason to actually open up that tubular just to separate the inner tube from its casing.



Need to get to the "Stuck" side of the inner to repair the hole


Thanks very much for your continued feedback

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5851
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Two options:

a) Manual repair as you seem intent to do: open the tubular and gently pry out the inner tube. Repair and stitch it back up.

b) liquid latex repair: Tufo Extreme works really well. It only takes about 20ml to fix most punctures. The smaller the puncture the higher the success rate.

You're welcome. 8)

Ciao, ;)
Last edited by fdegrove on Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


HillRPete
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Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

Writing partly because I need to vent a bit, and also seeking advice.

Converted to (Conti Comps) tubular this season, and extremely happy so far, I had my first puncture recently. The tyres had close to 3000 km on them. On the rear some wear was visible, the punctured front however was looking almost pristine.

Fortunately I was only a few 100m from home, so I could skip a roadside job, push home, and look at things later. Since I've been meaning to try the Pitstop I'd been carrying all the time, I gave that a go. All started well, the tyre slowly inflated, and I could hear the sealant fizz out inside the tyre. Close to being finished with the application however, the tube ripped next to the valve, and some sealant came back through the valve hole. Needless to say I'm a bit disappointed with the material that has been treating me so well all summer.

Short of any better suggstions I'm pondering to use this tyre for learning purpose, and familiarise myself with stitching technique.

Lesson learned: press Pitstop onto valve no harder than needed to get it flowing. Not that I used a lot of force, though.

E777L
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:54 am
Location: AUS

by E777L

Let me vent also, but about Michelin Stop&Go, which pretty much comes with nil instructions.

I used it today for the first time following Vittoria's instructions. The mistake? Not screwing the spray's knob to the valve because with Vittoria you just press it against the valve. Foam overflowing everywhere :?

Realised the mistake and tried again. Same as you - sealant was doing its thing inside the wheel but then it overflew out of the valve. I quickly inflated the tyre to reverse the flow but then the foam came out of the small puncture hole... just wasted the full 100mL with no success?

Will see if the sealant settles overnight but, otherwise, tubular lesson learnt for me as well. First time I use them and may be I shouldn't have tried with a wheel cheaper than the Verdestein Fortezza TriComp Pro. At least they came with the wheels... but 500km only? :(

Switching to Conti Competition next.

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canbakay
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:54 pm
Location: London

by canbakay

wrong thread.

Cula
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:25 pm

by Cula

Sorry another question from me

Tufo Tubulars, how do you repair these as they are not stitched ?

Do you cut them open and stitch them or can they not be repaired ?

thanks

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F45
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

Sounds like what we need is a system of "tubular tubeless" so sealant can work effectively.

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Tufo tubulars include a 'bonded' tube (bonded to the casing), which makes the sealant more effective. The problem is that doing this makes the tire lose much of its suppleness and it becomes more 'clincher-like'.

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

F45 wrote:Sounds like what we need is a system of "tubular tubeless" so sealant can work effectively.


To add to what my candadian brother said, this tech existed already a few years before tubeless tyres. I'd even go as far and say it actually gave birth to tubeless tyres.

First brought to market by Tufo, the company that invented it (I think), it consisted of producing a tubeless tyre casing that was rendered airtight by a process that allowed to deposit butyl to a rubber casing.
IOW instead of having a separate inner tube and casing they actually developped a process which allowed the casing and inner tube to act as one and not leak air.

Except that they made a few mistakes when trying to market it: Tufo used materials that were questionable at best. Rolling resistance was sky high to be polite.
Schwalbe, a company belonging to the same group adopted the design and offered its own version with the same lack of success.
Once you know that either companies are more of investment groups rather than true tyre makers still not capable of manufacturing a supreme tyre to this day despite all marketing efforts you may start accepting that what, in principle, sounds like a good idea, is not automatically a key to success.

Later on Continental, not wanting to be left behind technically, produced similar tyres with, once again, the same lack of success.
The main resaon for this, to my mind at least, is twofold. A tyre like that is best build around a supple casing, not your typical german tank casing. The other reason is that once such a tyre is shot by a puncture that no sealant can cure there is just no way of repairing it.
You just have no other choice but to throw it in the bin. Not really appealing to the buying public.

Still, what stopped it dead in its tracks was that it was a product targeted at the wrong public, namely the regular tubular user who was not waiting for yet another mediocre tubular, and the decision makers of the races or even the tubular afficionado who were expecting superior performance and were disappointed. So none of them saw any improvement in performance (due to the lack of flex in the casing mostly I suppose) you'd expect to see.

Enter, tubeless tyres which, AFAIK, for road use has turned out unsatisfactorliy too. For similar reasons and other politico-industrial ones as well.

All in all not such a bad idea technically speaking. (B)Right idea at a bad time, I guess....

Ciao, ;)
Last edited by fdegrove on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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F45
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

Thanks for the history lesson. There's zero else on the 'net about it. Maybe in the future someone will come up with a technology to quickly fasten and unfasten the stitching. That would allow a tube to be inserted and the tire repaired if it is torn.

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
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Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

My apologies if I was once again in teaching mode.

It would indeed be absolutely marvelous if someone were to come up with a tubular tyre that had some sort of zipper to allow for an instant change of inner tube. No harm done.

It's well worth the intelectual effort. At the same time it must represent quite a design challenge to improve on what's been around for such a long time...

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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F45
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by F45

Uh, what? No, seriously, I'd been looking for info on the subject and came up with nothing. And I like history - I read Gibbon cover to cover.

Dammit
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:16 pm

by Dammit

Ok, this is kind of off topic, so please forgive me if posting this is a faux pas.

My front wheel is a Zipp 404 Firecrest with a Veloflex Carbon tub glued on.

I noticed the first time I rode it that there was a "tick!" on every revolution of the wheel, so I wrapped the valve stem in self amalgamating tape.

This didn't do anything, sadly.

So now I'm stuck, and the noise is driving me crazy- sounds like a spoke magnet hitting a sensor- but there is no magnet or sensor.

I just cleaned the bike and span the front wheel in the stand and whilst the wheel is round the tub bulges upward quite a bit near the valve area- could this be something to do with the tick noise?

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5851
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

I just cleaned the bike and span the front wheel in the stand and whilst the wheel is round the tub bulges upward quite a bit near the valve area- could this be something to do with the tick noise?


I doubt it.

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

Dammit
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:16 pm

by Dammit

Any ideas what could be causing the noise? I am out of ideas now.

by Weenie


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