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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I think you will have to define badass to find your builder. Most wheelbuilders are a little geeky as we build wheels. It a bit geeky but thats o.k.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:13 pm 
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rainerhq -- thanks so much for posting the Circus Monkey diagrams; I've been thinking about a pair of them.

Are you running a Campy or Shimano freehub? I'm looking for the rear dimensions for Campy.

Looks like the flange to center dimensions are measured to the outside of the flange vs center of the flange. Do have the measurements to center of flange?

Thanks!


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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:13 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:08 am
Posts: 88
KLabs wrote:
Mackers wrote:
KLabs wrote:
Hub: Novatec F482SB, with ABG freehub, 32H 4xDS 2xNDS ... this lacing should give almost equal DS/NDS spoke tension

I've seen this mentioned in this thread before, and it is absolutely not true.
Even if you could lace a 32h hub 4x, the nds tension would still be only 50%.

Hi Mackers, I checked a wheel that's laced 32H 4xDS 2xNDS, and the DS deflection tension was 62 and NDS was 57. DS was very tight. Not sure what hub was used but it was nothing special, and the rim was an eyeleted 20-22mm deep Alex rim (shallow rim). 14g SS spokes were used. I believe it was a 9 or 10 spd hub :-)

I am not sure what 62 equates to in kgf but it would be well over 100, probably more like 120 to 130 or higher.
Lets say DS spokes were 120kgf then the NDS spokes would be approx 110kgf ... that is quite even/close, about 90% DS :-)

Looking at the 4x lacing, the spokes pass initially over the spoke heads ( first cross), so I agree 4x on a 28H would depend on the flange dia and probably not a good idea, but possible. It would appear that a 4x lacing would be better done on a 36H hub, but can easily be done on a 32H hub and even a 28H hub (depending on hub and rim).

Comments welcome :-)


4x on a 28 hole wheel would seem to be too extreme. The optimal orientation is for the spoke to be exiting the flange perpendicular to an imaginary line crossing the center of the hub and the center of the specific spoke hole used.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:34 am 
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Location: Estonia
teleguy57 wrote:
rainerhq -- thanks so much for posting the Circus Monkey diagrams; I've been thinking about a pair of them.
Are you running a Campy or Shimano freehub? I'm looking for the rear dimensions for Campy.
Looks like the flange to center dimensions are measured to the outside of the flange vs center of the flange. Do have the measurements to center of flange?
Thanks!

I´m running Shima, but I don´t have those hubs yet. Diagrams are from ebay.
Novatec also gives measurements from center to outside of the flange. I don´t have c-c measurements.

I´m leaning towards CM, because they are available in silver. I thought I can get "zipp like" look with silver hubs, spokes, nipples and carbon rims.
I hope that bearings for CM are also available as spares.

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 Post subject: Miche Racing Box Hubs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:21 am 
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Posts: 34
I built up some wheels with Miche hubs and the instructions for adjusting are quite confusing. Could someone explain to me how I would adjust the pre-load on the bearings? My guess is loosen the small screw and use two 5mm allen wrenches and go counter-clockwise to back off the tension a bit. Could someone confirm? Thanks! btw, this is the hub http://www.miche.it/en/catalogo/catalog ... racing-box


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
loosen the grub screw and that red cap can be adjusted by a spanner thats how you do the preload. Use the two 5 mm allen keys at each end of the axle to remove the end caps to access to the bearings.

Measuring flange spacings from the out side to centre makes no sense a some spokes are heads in and other heads out. Measuring from the centre of the flange to the centreof the hub makes more sense. This is why I do not trust manufacturers hub measurements either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:46 pm 
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bm0p700f, thanks for that! Even easier than I thought. Do you find that they are adjusted a bit tight in the factory or you don't mess with them?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:33 pm 
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I have very important question. I want to build wheels:
Novatec A171 + F172 hubs, 20+24h
Kinlin XC-279
CN-Mac424 Aero
I'd like to ask, if I could mount it on reverted nipples:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CN-P11-Alloy-Internal-nipple-14G-50pcs-hidden-/160939176930?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2578b8f3e2

It's very important to me, because if it was possible, I could buy spokes much cheaper in Poland. Otherwise, I will have to order spokes in Taiwan, which is much more expensive and hurting for my small, Polish student's wallet.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:39 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Poland
rainerhq wrote:
Those U-shape chinese rims are very attractive, so I decided to build myself a pair of training wheels.
I´m 67kg (147lbs) and I live in very flat country.
Here´s my plan:
Front hub: Circus Monkey HRW, FTF 69mm
Spokes: 20 Sapim Laser, radial

Rear hub: Circus Monkey HRW, NDS 40mm; DS 19mm
Spokes: 28 Sapim Race, 2x both sides.

Are 28 spokes on rear to much? Will 24 be enough? Weight difference is only 22g.
Whole wheelset should be around 1532g.
All suggestions are welcome!



20/24 h will be good for your weight with this rims.

If somebody want's to built a wheels on spokes Mac 424, this spokes are very good to make a road and mtb wheels.
I made from 2-3 years wheels use this spokes, and I have about good opinion.

Now we can bay on e-bay a new model spokes Mac 360 and make lighter wheels .
It's lighter ( 3.6 g ) than Mac 424, Cx Ray and more ......

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
gjash. I have played around with the preload a bit but on my more recent wheelset with miche hubs I left the preload set from the factory. I see nothing wrong with they way they come set up. The pre load adjustment is mostly there for when bearings get done. The factory pre load setting does not seem to be killing my bearings.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:51 am 
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Posts: 170
@rainerhq

That's exactly the approach of which I'm thinking -- sliver hubs and spokes with carbon rims ala Zipp look.

I built up a set of Shimano Circus Monkey hubs with A23s and liked them a lot. Hubs were really well finished and built up well. Ended up selling them last Spring as I was going Campy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 154
PT SL+ and AC Sprint 350..happy marriage? I only have done some everyday wheels so what spoke pattern suits best for this? (heard stories PT may need some special, is it so) What about nipples w/ thradlock glue, do they hold wheel true better (worth trying). DT Prolock are like this, right? Does Sapim have something same, I was thinking CX-rays. Should I choose alu or brass nipples? (user is 65k but top amateur so I suppose wheel gets quite bashing..prolly needs truing every now and then)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:42 am
Posts: 34
teleguy57 wrote:
@rainerhq

That's exactly the approach of which I'm thinking -- sliver hubs and spokes with carbon rims ala Zipp look.

I built up a set of Shimano Circus Monkey hubs with A23s and liked them a lot. Hubs were really well finished and built up well. Ended up selling them last Spring as I was going Campy.


Why are these called 'Shimano Circus Monkey' hubs? Is Shimano making them? In Japan?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Posts: 34
bm0p700f wrote:
gjash. I have played around with the preload a bit but on my more recent wheelset with miche hubs I left the preload set from the factory. I see nothing wrong with they way they come set up. The pre load adjustment is mostly there for when bearings get done. The factory pre load setting does not seem to be killing my bearings.


Thanks. I went ahead and loosened them up just tad. Seems like it's not so critical as cup and cone type hubs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Location: Estonia
'Shimano Circus Monkey' hubs: these are just hubs with shimano cassette body, not campy.

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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:03 pm 


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