HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 3374
Location: Athens, Greece
I also believe that this is a stupid thread since a bike's technology is... well.. elementary. Anyone can make a hi-tec bike. It's not a car. It's not an airplane. Building a high quality bike is really, really easy.
stella-azzurra: I have two italian bikes for many reasons. Looks, ride quality, heritage... I have ridden many bikes through the last 20 years and I still find that the huge experience many Italian manufacturers have cannot be neglected.

_________________
My 6530gr Wilier Cento Uno
My 8618gr Colnago Master X-light
My 9745gr Pinarello Dyna


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:01 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 513
Aren't you just contradicting yourself? If building a great bike is easy, design experience is irrelevant.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 513
fdegrove wrote:
I suppose you have TORAY in mind which is the acronym for Tokyo Raychem,


Nope, I think he's talking about the one that's an acronym for Toyo Rayon, that was founded 30 years before Raychem.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:05 pm 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am
Posts: 597
kgt wrote:
Building a high quality bike is really, really easy


Really? all those millions being wasted in cycle development by manufacturers, if only they had realised! :wink:


@HammerTime2 oooohhhh, low blow! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:30 am
Posts: 715
Location: Simi Valley CA
I guess it's all relative to what the user likes. :mrgreen:

_________________
eurperg wrote:
My wife is sitting next to me, and just thought that was a dildo, not a saddle.. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:13 pm
Posts: 562
Location: Denmark. Yeeees
I'll drink to that Getter.

_________________
Custom Rychtarski steel bike
Ridley X-ride 10
Custom Wittson Ti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 am
Posts: 5020
Location: New York
kgt wrote:
I also believe that this is a stupid thread since a bike's technology is... well.. elementary. Anyone can make a hi-tec bike. It's not a car. It's not an airplane. Building a high quality bike is really, really easy.
stella-azzurra: I have two italian bikes for many reasons. Looks, ride quality, heritage... I have ridden many bikes through the last 20 years and I still find that the huge experience many Italian manufacturers have cannot be neglected.


I have many Italian bikes as well but still believe that the best bike is the one that fits craftsmanship aside.
These days each of the top manufacturers (mass and custom) have top notch bikes each with their strengths and weaknesses regardless of where the frame or component is made.

_________________
I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 3374
Location: Athens, Greece
@ wingguy & stephen@fibre-lyte

I usually try to be precise although english is not my native language.
I was talking about a hi-tec/high quality bike from a manufacturing/materials point of view. I do not believe that every hi-tec bike rides great. There are expensive bikes of the highest standards that ride really bad (not comfortable, not good geometry, not balanced on the road, not lively etc. etc.) and less expensive bikes that have a really enjoyable ride quality (including some heavy steel frames).
You need some experience to understand all these of course. Otherwise you think that marketing and huge budgets always equals ride quality. That is not true.

_________________
My 6530gr Wilier Cento Uno
My 8618gr Colnago Master X-light
My 9745gr Pinarello Dyna


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:06 pm 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am
Posts: 597
I agree with the last post, but your earlier post said that it was very easy to build a high quality bike. Regardless of the cost or the hi-tec methods involved (or not), building a high quality bike isn't easy. I do agree however that some inexpensive bikes can be as good to ride as some expensive bikes :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 3374
Location: Athens, Greece
It is very, very easy in comparison to a high quality car, or boat, or plane... Berk can design and produce a top frame himself without any serious RD or budget or engineers support team and he's like 18 years old :D

_________________
My 6530gr Wilier Cento Uno
My 8618gr Colnago Master X-light
My 9745gr Pinarello Dyna


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Berk is a educated as an engineer. He knows his composite tech fairly well. :wink:
He does is own R&D. He has a budget (however limited and funded through other means).

_________________
Exp001 || TeamLACBC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:17 am
Posts: 600
Location: Latvia
kgt wrote:
I also believe that this is a stupid thread since a bike's technology is... well.. elementary. Anyone can make a hi-tec bike. It's not a car. It's not an airplane. Building a high quality bike is really, really easy.
stella-azzurra: I have two italian bikes for many reasons. Looks, ride quality, heritage... I have ridden many bikes through the last 20 years and I still find that the huge experience many Italian manufacturers have cannot be neglected.

Wait, what? Whole industry are full of worthless cars. If we're not talking about engine, car or boar is not that much more advanced than a bike. Bike is just smaller package. If anything, bike needs a lot more fine detail and precision. What we use on our bike finetuning titanium bolt lenghts and custom carbon fiber parts are F1 technology. Ordinary car compared to top notch bike is like comparing tetris to a spaceship. Many cars are assembled by robots in less than hour, many carbon fiber parts needs 20 hours by hand. Even glueing a fricking tub on takes 3 days to do it properly.
Berk would design and make car or boats body if he would be paid to do it.

_________________
Hand made upcycled bicycle tyre belts


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:02 pm
Posts: 944
Location: EU
That's BS. The tolerances on some of the modern engines and various other parts (especially drivetrain) are on the aeronautical level. Modern cars really are complex machines and some of their multimedia interfaces uses more electronic power than the Eagle lunarlander in the 1969. Building a brand new model in car industry is currently a multi million dolar investment, so it's really not comparable to the bikes.

Do bike use advanced composite technology? Yes, but the are away from the Aeronautical industry, motorsport industry and in some cases automotive industry. But the mechanical engineering, not to mention electronics are from a completely different planet on bikes.

_________________
A light bike does replace good fitness.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:39 am 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am
Posts: 597
record wrote:
The tolerances on some of the modern engines and various other parts (especially drivetrain) are on the aeronautical level.


and being grounded regularly these days apparently :roll:

What makes you think that tolerances used when manufacturing a bike are any different to those when manufacturing parts for a car?

kgt wrote:
Berk can design and produce a top frame himself without any serious RD or budget or engineers support team and he's like 18 years old


Not taking anything away from Berk, but are you trying to say that his frame is at the absolute cutting edge and all those known brand manufacturers are wasting their time (and multi million pound budgets) in development? For that matter, what is it about Berks frame that appeals to you? Have you ridden it?

For the record, our special projects engineer built his own time trial frame, fork and wheel set including deep rim front and tri spoke rear, all in carbon, back in the mid nineties, almost twenty years ago. I'm sure that he'd tell you that he could have done a lot more with a multi million pound budget :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Austin
I do not want to take anything away from Berk either but ask yourself, he has built 4 maybe 5 frames? Berk is definitely a very talented young man. Super thoughtful and I like him a lot. There just simply isn't enough production, testing and data points to validate the work as an end all benchmark.

I just handed carbon crumpton #390(over a 9.5 year period) to my painter the other day. I am 47 years old and still do not know what I do not know. But I know as a single entity, repetition and volume brings experience. I'll get there some day.

stephen@fibre-lyte wrote:
record wrote:
The tolerances on some of the modern engines and various other parts (especially drivetrain) are on the aeronautical level.


and being grounded regularly these days apparently :roll:

What makes you think that tolerances used when manufacturing a bike are any different to those when manufacturing parts for a car?

kgt wrote:
Berk can design and produce a top frame himself without any serious RD or budget or engineers support team and he's like 18 years old


Not taking anything away from Berk, but are you trying to say that his frame is at the absolute cutting edge and all those known brand manufacturers are wasting their time (and multi million pound budgets) in development? For that matter, what is it about Berks frame that appeals to you? Have you ridden it?

For the record, our special projects engineer built his own time trial frame, fork and wheel set including deep rim front and tri spoke rear, all in carbon, back in the mid nineties, almost twenty years ago. I'm sure that he'd tell you that he could have done a lot more with a multi million pound budget :wink:

_________________
www.crumptoncycles.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jekyll man and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Merckx MX Leader - 25th Anni Ltd Edition Re-issue

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

BikeTart

17

2517

Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Quinn039 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Industry Nine Classic Road Hubs

in Everything wheels

Horizons

8

254

Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:31 pm

bikerjulio View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Local Guide in Harz Germany

in Cycle Chat

Anders

0

133

Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:58 pm

Anders View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Framebuilders in France/Belgium/Germany

in Road

atlaz

7

522

Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:05 am

boots2000 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Question on importing bike from Germany to France

in Cycle Chat

yoshirider

12

667

Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:57 pm

BRM View the latest post


It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:27 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB