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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
TimmS wrote:
If it comes to industry leader in bikes I would say USA, with brands like Cannondale, Scott and Specialized.


Scott is a Swiss company, btw. They sell heavily in Germany as well.

konky wrote:
It would be interesting to hear who sells the most quality mid market bikes.


Merida, Giant. Worldwide, its not even close for 'mid-market' bikes.
Both are Taiwan based.

"Industry leader" for boutique tech?
Germany.

"Industry leader" for composite tech?
Germany.

"Industry leader" for marketing?
United States or Italy.

"Industry leader" for production?
Taiwan. China is closing in fast though.
That isn't a metaphor.


I'd love you to justify those. :D

If you're purely talking bikes then you can't really say 'composite tech' as they all simply 'borrow' what's already used then put a different name on it. As for production, imho Taiwan and China are both way behind the rest in terms of production technology, in fact many rely on western engineers to implement their systems. What the east is good for is mass production at cheap prices as their wages and cost of living in places such as China are very low. Once those wages catch up with the west, if they do, then compare production. I remember an interview with one of Taiwans biggest bike producers (can't remember the name of the engineer I'm afraid) and he said that Taiwan can no longer compete with China on price so they were aiming for quality instead. Welcome to the west :D


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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:26 pm 
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stella-azzurra wrote:
kgt wrote:
IME the finest riding machines are still italian.


This has no bias at all except for the fact you own a wilier and colnago right? :lol:

I can see this post becoming nationalistic and self-righteous. :oops: :lol:


kgt is Greek. And wouldn't you expect a fan of Italian bikes to own Italian bikes.

From what I can see in this thread Germany just keeps coming up.

stella-azzura I'm English by the way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:38 am 
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Hi,

Well put.

Quote:
If you're purely talking bikes then you can't really say 'composite tech' as they all simply 'borrow' what's already used then put a different name on it. As for production, imho Taiwan and China are both way behind the rest in terms of production technology, in fact many rely on western engineers to implement their systems. What the east is good for is mass production at cheap prices as their wages and cost of living in places such as China are very low. Once those wages catch up with the west, if they do, then compare production. I remember an interview with one of Taiwans biggest bike producers (can't remember the name of the engineer I'm afraid) and he said that Taiwan can no longer compete with China on price so they were aiming for quality instead. Welcome to the west


IMO it's not a matter of if but when.
After that, with a little luck, we (the western world) are back to square one.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:42 am 
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germany... really. maybe in automobiles


best training tech - USA - strava/trainerroad.com/garmin/quarq

best aero tt/road - CANADA - Cervelo

best wheels - USA - HED/ZIPP/ENVE/BONTRAGER/REYNOLDS

best frames- close but give it to the USA boutique brands - parlee/crumpton/vanilla/vamoots/litespeed/lynskey. the euros are not even close..

best steel tubing - USA - KVA stainless steel

best carbon - JAPAN

best saddles/shoes - ITALY

....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:54 am 
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spartan wrote:
germany... really. maybe in automobiles


best training tech - USA - strava/trainerroad.com/garmin/quarq

best aero tt/road - CANADA - Cervelo

best wheels - USA - HED/ZIPP/ENVE/BONTRAGER/REYNOLDS

best frames- close but give it to the USA boutique brands - parlee/crumpton/vanilla/vamoots/litespeed/lynskey. the euros are not even close..

best steel tubing - USA - KVA stainless steel

best carbon - JAPAN

best saddles/shoes - ITALY

....


Let me guess, you're a dumb yank? :lol:

"best frame" followed by the brand "Litespeed"??!??!??!

I think you've all perhaps been sucked in by the marketing men. Making bikes doesnt require ground breaking feats of engineering.

There's no denying Canyon offer superb value for money though!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:07 am 
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Oh, please, please, please don't say you are from the United States. We look bad enough already. Have you ever left this continent?

...But I'll counter:

spartan wrote:
germany... really. maybe in automobiles


Automobile Engines? Yes. At the moment. For efficiency per volume and power output. With the exception of a Ferrari engine, German engines are found in most super cars, except for the Ariel Atom (but that's more of a kit car, and let's not go off topic.) For reliability? Japanese engines.

spartan wrote:
best aero tt/road - CANADA - Cervelo


I'll counter with Canyon (Germany), Walser (Switzerland), BMC (Switzerland), and Kuota (Italy). Just for starters.

spartan wrote:
best wheels - USA - HED/ZIPP/ENVE/BONTRAGER/REYNOLDS


I'll counter with Corima, Mavic, Xentis, CarbonSports. Damn great wheels.

spartan wrote:
best frames- close but give it to the USA boutique brands - parlee/crumpton/vanilla/vamoots/litespeed/lynskey. the euros are not even close.


Image

A2J, Spin, Sarto, Nordischer-Rahmenbau, Baum, Crisp, Enigma, Endorfin, Nicolai... I can keep going, but there's plenty of worthy competition in the very, very subjective boutique/custom market.

spartan wrote:
best saddles/shoes - ITALY


The best running shoes I've ever owned from Japan. The best football/soccer shoes I've ever owned are made in Germany.
The best walking shoes I've ever owned are from a German brand, made in China. The best cycling shoes I've owned are a US brand, but yesterday tried on a certain Australian brand that had me swooning. The best saddle I've ever used is from Poland. The best dress shoes I own are from Italy.

The point? Expand your mind, son.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:17 am 
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konky wrote:
stella-azzurra wrote:
kgt wrote:
IME the finest riding machines are still italian.


This has no bias at all except for the fact you own a wilier and colnago right? :lol:

I can see this post becoming nationalistic and self-righteous. :oops: :lol:


kgt is Greek. And wouldn't you expect a fan of Italian bikes to own Italian bikes.

From what I can see in this thread Germany just keeps coming up.

stella-azzura I'm English by the way.


It's more of a matter of justify your taste. It does not make what nationality you are.

If you purchase cannondale bikes and you like what you bought you will undoubtedly be biased toward an item you bought. It is natural to do that.

Everyone does this even me :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:38 am 
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spartan wrote:
best training tech - USA - strava/trainerroad.com/garmin/quarq


what about Polar or SRM?

spartan wrote:
best wheels - USA - HED/ZIPP/ENVE/BONTRAGER/REYNOLDS


ENVE....the aero design has been developed by an English man I believe

spartan wrote:
best frames- close but give it to the USA boutique brands - parlee/crumpton/vanilla/vamoots/litespeed/lynskey. the euros are not even close..


mmmmm.....Litespeed and Lynskey are boutique are they? So what is boutique?

spartan wrote:
best steel tubing - USA - KVA stainless steel


based on?

spartan wrote:
best carbon - JAPAN


best carbon what...? Emissions may be? :wink:

@prendrefeu......German engines are found in many super cars.....and all the (lots of) others don't have German engines :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:45 am 
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Most. I did not state all. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:52 am 
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Hi,

Quote:
best carbon - JAPAN


As in I have no clue about what's available so I just say what I learned from a bike mag/rag or something?

I suppose you have TORAY in mind which is the acronym for Tokyo Raychem, once a division of Raychem, a US chemical giant.
So two peanauts for the US of A. Knowing your industrial history can be educational. :lol:

Anyway, threads like this are as stupid as talking about politics, almost..... :roll:

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 am 
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fdegrove wrote:
Anyway, threads like this are as stupid as talking about politics, almost..... :roll:


Agree...opinion are like arseholes...everyone has one...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:50 am 
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I figured the best wheel would be between zipp, madfiber, lightweight, and enve. Can't really include mavic in there becuase of thier carbon spoke theory(use them in compression instead of tension)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:16 am 
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Moved to chat for obvious reasons.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:49 pm 
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I think with cycling many good product developments come from almost everywhere.

My first experience with my "illness' started in 1975 when I bought this US made component:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... 2&Enum=106

Later additions to being a weight weenie was the Sampson Titanium bottom bracket. (US made) Followed with the Grafton Speedstix that were all part of the CNC machined purple anodized craze that took place here in the early 90's.

viewtopic.php?p=318108

To the OP I would not say that Germany is becoming an industry leader but more that they have been a very strong player for some time in products and advancements with cycling related components.

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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:49 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:36 pm 
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You guys are blabbing on about a bunch of irreleventsia.

Who has been the true industry leader in advancing cycling performance? It is shockingly obvious. Why the United States of course - home to Amgen, maker of EPO, which licensed the patent to synthetically produce it from Columbia University in the City of New York.


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