Great thread. Thanks to all for all the info. Wanted to contribute a little bit myself for informational purpose if anyone else might be thinking of a similar build. It's a Miche Racing Hub set 28H, Kinlin XR-240 rims and Sapim lasers with aluminum spokes. Build went smoothly and used a Park TM-1 for tensioning. It's my first time to use Sapim lasers previously I had used DT Revolutions, Competitions, Champions. The Sapim Lasers seemed to resist twisting more than the Revolutions. I prepped with light grease on the spoke threads and where the nipple interfaces with the rim. Seemed to work well.

Info:
F-Hub Miche Racing 28H 146g (actual) (left/right flange diameter 40mm, center to left flange 32mm, center to right flange 32mm) from Miche, not measured
R-Hub Miche Racing 28H 286g (actual) (left/right flange diameter 46mm, center to left flange 37.2mm, center to right flange 14.6) from Miche, not measured
F-Rim Kinlin XR-240 28H 455g (ERD 590) I weighed but ERD from Kinlin
R-Rim Kinlin XR-240 28H 460g (ERD 590) I weighed but ERD from Kinlin
Nipples Sapim 12mm Aluminum Alloy Poly-Ax Nipples -14G - Silver 16g
Front spokes 28 Sapim Lasers 283 MM 128g (x2 cross)
Rear spokes NDS 14 Sapim Lasers 281mm 63g (x2 cross)
Rear spokes DS 14 Sapim Lasers 279mm 63g (x2 cross)

Total weight came in at 1621g. Not bad for a training wheel.
See pics here if interested.
https://plus.google.com/photos/103848618420828916227/albums/5834291956125449297?authkey=CLrBjOK7-OmDbg

Nice build but miches rear rub DS spacings are wrong. The DS to centre spacing is 16.75mm and the NDS to centre spacing is 38mm. Giving a tension balance depending on crossing and ERD of the rims of about 44%.

I am sure that build will work well. The only thing wrong with those hubs is the weight but then again they do last and last and last....

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bm0p700f, I noticed you had mentioned that earlier in the thread and it made me nervous for a bit because I had already ordered my spokes, but when I punched in 16.75, the calculators gave me the same lengths. I know I should measure myself, but I previously built some wheels with some other Miche hubs and confirmed their specs at that time so they passed my QA for future builds—little risky though.

one question: we throw around weight numbers of the wheel, but is it important the ratio of weight from rims, spokes and hubs. Seems to me that weight of the rims would be a lot more important than the weight of the hubs. I'm thinking my next build will be Dura-Ace (not especially light) with super light carbon rims. whatcha think?

Weight is not that important even the weight of the rims. but this is WW so a 425g hub pair is bit heavy for most people here but they do last. My measurements of tension NDS/DS confirm the tension balance with flange spacing the way I measure them. If 14.6mm ds flange spacing was true the tension balance would be less than 40%. I get tension balance of 46% (correction to the earlier statement). I am measuring from the crentre of the flange to the lock nut. Not to sure how Miche come up with 14.6mm for that measurement.

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Hey all, just about decided

Front:
Rim: BHS C472w (or H+Son Archetype) 24H
Hub: Novatec A291SB 2x 24H
Spokes: Sapim Laser or CX-Ray and Sapim 14mm Aluminum Red Nipples

Rear:
Rim: BHS C472w (or H+Son Archetype) 32 hole
Hub: Novatec F482SB, with ABG freehub, 32H 4xDS 2xNDS ... this lacing should give almost equal DS/NDS spoke tension
Spokes: Sapim Laser or CX-Ray and Sapim 14mm Aluminum Red Nipples

Weight is approx 1520gms ... what do you think

I've seen this mentioned in this thread before, and it is absolutely not true.
Even if you could lace a 32h hub 4x, the nds tension would still be only 50%.

I don't think that the lacing would equalize tension as much as you think. If you want to up NDS tension, go with an OC rim like the A23 from Velocity.

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I just finished building a Powertap G3 28h with Aerolites on a DT RR440-Asymm offset rim. The rim's offset is 2.25mm and with my DS tension at 120kgf, the NDS average is about 67kgf. Had I built this with a non-offset rim, it would likely have been around 55kgf instead.

Hmmm ... the experienced wheel builder I have occasionally been discussing this with said the DS/NDS tension would be almost equal.
He implied that it was easy, with 32H, to lace the DS 4x (even a 28H) ...

Perhaps I misheard him ... what about 4xDS 1xNDS or an 18:9 4xDS 0xNDS using a 36H hub and rim?

A question, how much better are sapim cx-rays compared to lasers and sapim compared to pillar ... thanks

Hey guys, random thought here but how would you feel about using white lightning clean ride as a spoke prep? It's a wax lube so in theory it would be a lubricant during wheel building and then dry out and potentially hold the spoke? Just an idea.

@Klab- I have always been a big fan of the Sapims. It seems like Pillar changes their designs every other week, where as Cxrays are tried and true.
The Laser is an awesome spoke. The Cxray does have more of an elastic tendency which I really like.

@yeagermeister- Dont use White Lightning. Just use linseed oil if you want to do it on the cheap.

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This may be a shot in the dark, but has anyone built stans a340's with BHS hubs, in a 2x pattern (using cx rays). I did my research and checks, but being told by wheelbuilder that they are too long for the rear. Probably not helped by the fact that the ERD is different depending where you look. Would be good to confirm my mistake before I she'll out on getting different spokes.

Thanks Zen, I was more curious because I already have the White Lightning, would it work as Linseed oil does when it dries up?

Klabs,
The only way you're gonna get 4x lacing on 32 holes or less is if one side has double the spokes as the other, so it may be your 18:9 suggestion. Conventionally, you get slightly better bracing angles from reducing crosses, so a radial DS would help even it out. NOT to be mixed with 2:1 lacing, obviously.

@yeagermeister- All though the White Lightning is wax based, I doubt it would retain any sort of vibration dampening quality. When linseed oil dries, it becomes almost like dried honey. It is not only somewhat sticky, but it also absorbs road vibration quite well which helps to keep your nips in place relative to the spoke.
Its also available at any hardware store for $10.

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