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 Post subject: From 11S back to 10S.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:16 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5785
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Some shops in the old country are offering a service that will revert any 11S Campa shifter to 10S.
That would be interesting as I assume I'm not the only dinosaur still chewing through his pile of 10S chains and cogs.
Plus, I still use 10S on other bikes as well and hate rotating cassettes just because I want a certain wheel in a certain bike.

Question is, what parts need to be changed and how difficult would it be to do it yourself?

Cheers, ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 896
Location: Calgary
I have a bike that was built with Chorus 11 speed and is now Chorus 10 (can't quite remember why). I just changed the shifters and derailleurs. It still has the 11 speed crank and chain and there's no problem with them. I also have 11 speed cranks on a couple of 10 speed bikes with 10 speed chains and those shift well too.


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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:14 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:57 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5785
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Just for clarity's sake, the idea is to perform some surgery on 11S shifters so they become a plain 10S shifter whilst retaining all the other magic.
No Escape mech and what have you, just 10 clicks instead of 11.

In my case this will be run with, hopefully successfully, modded SR shifters, Fulcrum's little sleeper crank aka the RRS, SR rear derrie and all else either custom or Record 10S.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
Sounds good. I did the same back in the days of 8,9,10 speed. New ones will be similar I think.

Back with older shifters you would do the following:
1. pop out the back plastic plate of the shifter
2. tap out the pin holding the brake lever
3. Undo both ends of the shifter barrel using a 4mm allen key (reverse thread)
4. Take all the bits of the shifter barrel apart step by step to access the ratchet
Only trick when re-assembling is pre-tensioning one of the springs. I can't remember how it worked exactly, but wasn't too bad.

Campyonly probably has more details. And the exploded part diagram is pretty useful. I'd get one to hand before taking anything apart just in case.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1078
Location: Toronto
If we are talking Ultrashift, then the only way I can think of would be to replace the detent disc with one from a 2010 Centaur shifter. In 2009 there was a little shifting problem, and in 2011 they went to Powershift. So 2010 would be the only year you would want.

How you would get this, I don't know. Campy no longer makes little parts available.

Mr Fish is incorrect in his assumption. 2009 and later shifters use a completely different internal mechanism.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
If we are talking Ultrashift, then the only way I can think of would be to replace the detent disc with one from a 2010 Centaur shifter.


Looking at Campa's tech docs that would mean you'd actually have to order the bulk of the Centaur (or Veloce) shifter's parts as a spare kit: EC-CE110, right?

From 2011 all these little parts are no longer available separetely and you just replace the entire body and put the levers back on it seems.
Quite a change from a few years back but an understandable one.

As an alternative I could buy this kit and just swap out the brake lever:

https://www.bike-components.de/products/language/en/info/p26295_Schalteinheit-Centaur-Ultra-Shift--10-fach-.html

Thanks for the help, guys. :thumbup:

Ciao, ;)

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Last edited by fdegrove on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Posts: 2527
The problem will be actually finding the '10 model part to make the change. If you can do that, it includes everything but the brake lever, brake hood and band clamp.

The other method is to locate a new or used '10 model, 10 speed ultrashift lever.

An 11 speed RD has a slightly larger actuation ratio and will overshift just a bit, using the 10 speed shifter, but it shouldn't be a problem.

The only other solution is a J-tek shiftmate, to increase the cable pulls.

I sold all of my 10 speed cassettes and chains early in '09, and changed everything to 11 speed. I even have an '09 Centaur ultrashift lever converted to 11 speed, using the index disc from a wreck-damaged shifter.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:48 am
Posts: 1150
Location: Central USA
Regarding the 10 speed shift disk to replace the 11 - yep it was available for about a year, but now you need to buy the whole set of guts - not nearly as cost effective.

I played around for a couple of years with one bike having a hybrid of 10 and 11 speed parts.....eventually it evolved to where only the shifters and cassettes were 10 spd and I was really liking the shape of the 11 spd levers on my other bikes.

So finally I bit the bullet and sold my few remaining 10 spd parts (some new spares and some used) on ebay and actually came out quite well....very well in fact. 10 Speed was great but I'm very happy to have everything on all 3 bikes as (also great) 11 speed. And now for instance, any/all my wheels can be grabbed on a moment notice and ridden on any of my bikes.


Last edited by tommasini on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1078
Location: Toronto
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
If we are talking Ultrashift, then the only way I can think of would be to replace the detent disc with one from a 2010 Centaur shifter.


Looking at Campa's tech docs that would mean you'd actually have to order the bulk of the Centaur (or Veloce) shifter's parts as a spare kit: EC-CE110, right?

From 2011 all these little parts are no longer available separetely and you just replace the entire body and put the levers back on it seems.
Quite a change from a few years back but an understandable one.

As an alternative I could buy this kit and just swap out the brake lever:

https://www.bike-components.de/products/language/en/info/p26295_Schalteinheit-Centaur-Ultra-Shift--10-fach-.html

Thanks for the help, guys. :thumbup:

Ciao, ;)


You are basically correct - HOWEVER - you might be disappointed with the softer action of the 2010 Centaur mech (even though it was "improved"). 2012 Ultrashift definitely feels firmer than 2010. I recently offloaded mine on eBay.

I am using both 2012 Ultrashift and Powershift levers on a couple of my bikes, and am quite pleased with the Powershift, so another alternative is to just forget the conversion idea and go with current Centaur or Veloce.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5785
Location: Belgium
Hi,

You're probably right in that it's no longer worth the bother to convert the shifters as that single part is apparently no longer available.

Been reading this too: :mrgreen:

http://www.campyonly.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2032

BTW, regarding Powershift, I was wondering, how does the LH shifter operate?

Ciao, ;) and thx

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:50 pm
Posts: 181
bikerjulio wrote:
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
If we are talking Ultrashift, then the only way I can think of would be to replace the detent disc with one from a 2010 Centaur shifter.


Looking at Campa's tech docs that would mean you'd actually have to order the bulk of the Centaur (or Veloce) shifter's parts as a spare kit: EC-CE110, right?

From 2011 all these little parts are no longer available separetely and you just replace the entire body and put the levers back on it seems.
Quite a change from a few years back but an understandable one.

As an alternative I could buy this kit and just swap out the brake lever:

https://www.bike-components.de/products/language/en/info/p26295_Schalteinheit-Centaur-Ultra-Shift--10-fach-.html

Thanks for the help, guys. :thumbup:

Ciao, ;)


You are basically correct - HOWEVER - you might be disappointed with the softer action of the 2010 Centaur mech (even though it was "improved"). 2012 Ultrashift definitely feels firmer than 2010. I recently offloaded mine on eBay.

I am using both 2012 Ultrashift and Powershift levers on a couple of my bikes, and am quite pleased with the Powershift, so another alternative is to just forget the conversion idea and go with current Centaur or Veloce.


I'm running 2012 Powershift on two bikes, and it works quite well. You obviously can't dump multiple gears in both directions, but the (tactile) feel/feedback is not bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:13 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
The parts may not be available but I think I can still get them as there is still old stock about in the right places.

I would need a part number though in fact I will enquire for you exactly what you would need.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1078
Location: Toronto
The individual parts have never been available to my knowledge and there are no published individual part #s. Back in the spring of 2010 a kit with part # EC-CE110 was briefly released, then was no more. And I'm not really recommending this solution anyway as OP is aware.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:02 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5785
Location: Belgium
Hi,

The change from 11S to 10S requires the change of only a single part ((but it's no longer available as a spare (if it ever was)) of an upgrade/rebuild kit with Campa reference EC-CE110.
No one seems to carry stock though as it's not been around for long anyhow.

If you can find it then that would be great for other people running the original 10S shifters with the new 11S bodies as well.
Me I think I may simply buy the replacement body kit (naked shifter without brake lever nor hood), pop out the brake lever of a 11S (whichever I'll get), put that in the spare body and put a hood on it. That's really all it takes but it ain't exactly cheap. (Well, it's not that bad considiering a single Campa screw could cost a tenner a pop anyway....)

It's only going to be used for a few years at most so it's really not that big a deal. Even a set of Centaur Powershift shifter won't break the bank either. :)

Image

In the pic you'll see part EC-RE017 and that's the only part that determins the number of clicks of the RH shifter.
RE stands for Record so I guess Campa must have had plans to market these new shifters as 10S across the entire range at some point....

Thanks for offering your help anyway. 8)

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
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Location: Toronto
ACTUALLY - OP is pointing to the wrong part. The detent disc is P/N EC-CE 160.

Although the drawing is interesting as I hadn't seen it before. I think Campy redacted it.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:39 am 


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